We are the Victims

[David2004]

Removed Arab propaganda excusing Muslim terrorism and denying the facts of the Holocaust.

-NewsGuy

[Illuminatus]

[.. The Israeli government (will) make atonement for peace and security ..]

as soon as

the dozen or so Arab countries who attempted to destroy Israel in the past 5 wars also, [.. make atonement for peace and security ..]

sounds fair to me

btw,

any comparison of Jews with Nazis is hilarious since Palestinian Arabs (and Arabas in general) were Nazi allies during World War II and still praise the Nazis in their own Arab media.

[sharonbn]

David2004

Generally speaking, I agree with what you've said: Israel has caused injustice and inflicted unecessary pain on the Palestinians. I do not know about American media, however, the reports we get from Europe show that the media there is biased towards the Palestinians, portraiting them as perpetual victims, while downplaying their terror attacks.

However, I strongly object to references and comparisons you make to the Jewish Holocaust in WWII. There is no event in modern human history that can be compared to that historical tragedy. Not in scale, not in the systematic machine-like nature of the killing and not in the ideology behind the action. A Palestinian city that is put under blockade cannot be compared to a ghetto simply becuse an entire city is not a ghetto.

"Blaming the Palestinian people for the problem we face in this crisis today would be similar to blaming the Jewish people for the Holocaust" Maybe it is wrong to blame the Pals for "this crisis". However, it is also misleading, if not manipulative, to compare the actions of the oppressed people in the two occasions.

[Mil]

David, do you know the total number of ethnic Germans ethnically cleansed from Czehoslovakia, Poland, USSR, East Prussia, Yugoslavia, Austria, France, Denmark, Hungary, Romania, and even within Germany itself within the years 1945-1948?

[Mira]

David, do you know the total number of ethnic Germans ethnically cleansed from Czehoslovakia, Poland, USSR, East Prussia, Yugoslavia, Austria, France, Denmark, Hungary, Romania, and even within Germany itself within the years 1945-1948?

Or the number of Jewish refugees that were ethnically cleansed from the Arab countries...

[Leon]

David2004

Generally speaking, I agree with what you've said: Israel has caused injustice and inflicted unecessary pain on the Palestinians

.

How? is it because they (Jews) havent drowned in the sea yet?

[sharonbn]

.
How? is it because they (Jews) havent drowned in the sea yet?

Israel is ruling over a foreign people for 38 years. These people have no citizenship and no civil rights. Do you believe this is justice?

[Leon]

Israel is ruling over a foreign people for 38 years.

Yeh, Israel just decided one day to go in and "occupy" "their" land for no apparent reason...all in the name of colonalism and pure sadisim...the Israelis just enjoy it.

These people have no citizenship and no civil rights. Do you believe this is justice?

well considering that 95% them of have been living under PLO rule for the past 10 years and how the "palestinian street" is ruled by the gun - perhaps you are right about them havig no "civil rights". Maybe Israel should give the Palestinian authority more money in addition to the US $1 billion they already give them every year on top of the hundreds of millions in US $$$ they get in aid money from the international europe. This will assist them in improving the quality of incitement and hatred which is broadcast daily on their TV and radio or freely hold mass hate parades where they walk around dressed up like the KKK and scream for more Jewish blood...speaking of civil liberaties under a "brutual occupier."

Yup Israel is simply not doing enough, apart from sadistically oppressing them just for the pleasure of it.

[Mediocrates]

Israel is ruling over a foreign people for 38 years. These people have no citizenship and no civil rights. Do you believe this is justice?

Why is it you sit in judgment of Jews? Why is it no one sits in judgment of Arabs? Why is that? I'd really like to understand why no one sits in judgment of the Palestinians? Please explain the moral and ethical underpinnings of that.

[Leon]

The Israeli government saying t-hey will do one thing...the Israelis have imprisoned...The Israeli government must make atonement for peace and security for the people of Israel and the world... If the people and government of Israel want to raise the credibility and stature of the State of Israel among the international community of nations they will have to make major changes to their ways

"The Israeli government must...the Israeli governemt should..." by the sounds of it the Palestinian authority has no obligations or responsbilities at all...you've basically absolved them of their obligations and allowed them to wash their hands of all responsbility.

Its almost hilerious that you make so many hypocritical demands of Israel to "make peace", demanding that it must "change its ways" whilst totally ignoring and making it seem ok for the PLO Arabs to continue on with their daily incitment to kill Jews via TV, radio and schools - to continue planning to murdre innocent Jews - young and old in a most brutual, calculated and cold blooded manner. You make so many demands of Israel, yet forget that they fulfilled literally everything that was demanded of them under Oslo and the road map...yet the Arabs have broken everyone of their obligations and promises and continue to brutually and savagley murder whislt indoctrinating and educating their future generations to hate and voilence.



But what i object the most is your offensive and disgraceful comparison to the PLO terrirotires to the Jewish ghettos. I suppose the Jews recieved billions of US $$$ in international aid every year and ure average Jewish family in the ghettos lived in four storey villas, recieved free electricity, gas, running clean water (payed for by their "oppressors"), had a free press which was free to incite voilence and murder against the population outside the ghetto on a daily basis, and the restrictions placed on Jews were a result of them murdering innocent european women and children. they were also free to hold mass hate parades like these http://www.bambili.com/b_gallery/vie...p?pic_id=16101
http://backspin.typepad.com/backspin....html#comments



Where is the moderator when he is needed?

[Allegro]

http://www.bambili.com/b_gallery/view_pic_id.asp?pic_id=16101[/url]
http://backspin.typepad.com/backspin....html#commentsWhere is the moderator when he is needed?

I generaly agree with your message. I have some remarks over the US annual support for Israel issue. This issue is very hot within Anti-Semites web-activity and things have to put strait. First all have to know that Israel is one of the only that pays most of the money back. So you may call that aid a loan too. It's a business that pays back for the US too. Mutual benefit.

Second, under the US-Israel strategic cooperation many projects in many areas of mutual interests, military, science, medicine, technology (for Israeli military technologies used by the US army) and such are developed.

and so, are together investigate with big Israeli contribution that can easily be translated into money and economic assets entering the US pocket. One of the well known projects is the "Arrow" missiles that was an Israeli science break through.

Third, Israel is yet a military magazine post of the US if global crisis occurs. Some US military magazines are spread in Israel for worst days that may come. The US pushes ammunition and assets from those magazines to their army in Iraq shortening the time and save money and lives. Israel improved some US military tools and made them safer in battle rescuing many American soldiers at battle zone, such as Military personal carriers shelter improves.

[Womble]

Prime Minister Sharon said that the State of Israel is going to pull all of Jewish settlements out of the Gaza Strip unilaterally by July 2005. Some of the facts about the Gaza Strip the Israeli government does not what you to know. One only needs to look at the Israel government reaction to the Palestinian attack on the six Jewish Israeli settlers. They are some of the people who have been making the 1.4 million Palestinian people in the Gaza Strip a life of a living hell for the last 37+ years. The 7000 Israeli Jewish settlers control approximately 37% of the Gaza Strip with 1.4 million Palestinians live in the remaining 63% of a hundred square miles of land the Gaza Strip. Hundreds of thousands of the Palestinian people living in the Gaza Strip today are refugees who were force to leave their homes and farms in what is now Israel proper. Today many Palestinian people are living in Ghettos equivalent to the Jewish Ghettos of the thirties in Europe.

Blaming the Palestinian people for the problem we face in this crisis today would be similar to blaming the Jewish people for the Holocaust. The bond created between the Jewish and Christian religious extremists in Israel and the United States are behind the United States government’s policies of today in the Middle East. If the recent facts in history cannot be reported to the people with accuracy today then why would it be any different yesterday? Only by understanding the problems and grievances of both sides can one get nearer to the truth. Most of the American people are only receiving one side of the story the Israeli Party Line “We are the victims”.

There is no way to undo the wicked things done yesterday only a chance to change our ways for the children of today for a better tomorrow. The timeline of January 1, 2005 to January 15, 2005 is a snapshot of the last 58 years to the problems in Palestinian-Israeli Crisis. The Israeli government saying they will do one thing while they continue to do what they have been doing all along. In the name of Israel’s national defense and security the Israelis have imprisoned the entire population of the people of Palestine. The Israeli government must make atonement for peace and security for the people of Israel and the world. If the people and government of Israel want to raise the credibility and stature of the State of Israel among the international community of nations they will have to make major changes to their ways. Only by addressing the truth to the realities on the ground will peace and security have a chance to grow on both sides. -David

There are so many false claims in your post that I simply have no time to fisk it right now, it would literally mean word-by-word debunking. But hey, just one point that would alone make your whole statement crumble:

Blaming the Palestinian people for the problem we face in this crisis today would be similar to blaming the Jewish people for the Holocaust.

When you remind me of examples when the Jewish people in the 30-s massacred Germans after accusing them of ritual murder like the Palestinian Arabs did to Jews in 1840; when you remind me when the Jewish people massacred Germans for daring to carry out their religious rituals like the Palestinian Arabs did to Jews in 1929; when you remind me when the Jewish people invited gangs of foreign maradeurs into Germany to generate another wave of violence like the Palestinian Arabs did to Jews in Palestine in 1936; when you remind me what army the Jews attempted to conquer Germany with like the Palestinians did with the infamous Arab Liberation Army, formed on the basis of the Nazi muslim regiments such as the Hanjar division in 1947, when you remind me when Jews blew up Germans in restaurants and shot German children at playgrounds like the Palestinian Arabs did and continue to do- I may allow you to use that comparison. In the meanwhile, stop preaching and get a history book.

The present situation is less the fault of the Palestinian Arabs specifically and more of the Arab nations out there who incited and funded the Palestinian violence- but Israel certainly isn't the one to blame.

[danholo]

The holocaust isn't solely for grieving about the dead. People don't understand what the Holocaust was. They just think of murder but a member on GameFAQs' board put it quite well:

Sadly, there will be people who will think that abortion is worse than the Holocaust simply because they don't understand the Holocaust. It isn't about the sheer number of people killed. This is a common error in their historical thinking. In schools and in popular culture, the emphasis is on the number of people killed. Sadly, this lends itself to people believing that the Holocaust was not that big of a big deal. Sadly, history is failing future generations. We are failing students by not exposing them to the real horrors of the Holocaust. We as Jews are taught this in religious school. Public schools spare most students and focus on just the numbers.

Round up your friend's family, make them sleep in a barn 2'x3' barn. Tattoo their skin with a serial number. Don't give them toilet facilities. Refuse them medical attention except to conduct medical experiments on them. Beat them. Verbally berate them. Don't feed them more than a piece of bread a day. Don't give them an explanation as to why this is happening to them. And when you kill one, make sure you do it in front of the others. Take the hair of the dead and weave it into stuffing for pillows. Take their gold fillings and fashion it into jewelry. Use their skin for lampshades. If anyone raises their voice to you, torture them in front of the others before killing them. Make them sleep next to their own dead. Make them live in their own feces. Force the living into ovens. Repeat x 13 million.

This is the reason why Israel exists. Human's don't think of themselves as equals by nature, Jews will always be victims without their own land. Heck, they are victims in their own land but a land of your own almost guarantees protection.

[sharonbn]

Originally Posted by Mayhem King
Force the living into ovens.

For someone that priases historical accurence and complains about Holocaust misconception, it is surprising to see such a common inaccuracy. The Nazis did not burn people alive (at least not in death camps). The crematoriums were used to discard bodies. Gas was used for the actual killing.

[danholo]

Very true, sharonbn. But that wasn't the point. I guess you know that.