Police to Bar Temple Mount Gathering

[Ophra]

Police to bar Temple Mt. gathering

Jerusalem police chief Ilan Franco has decided to bar a massive Jewish pilgrimage to the Temple Mount by a group of ultra-nationalists opposed to the planned withdrawal from the Gaza Strip following multiple intelligence warnings that such an event could prompt Palestinian violence at the bitterly contested holy site, police said Tuesday.

But organizers said that they were going ahead with the event, which is scheduled for April 10, setting the stage for a major show-down with police outside the Jerusalem site next month.

The event's organizers had planned to bring up to 10,000 people to the Mount at one time, in an effort to pre-occupy police and the army, and take them away from Gaza.

Palestinian officials have denounced the campaign as a provocation, and have warned that such a visit could lead to a renewal of violence at the bitterly contested holy site.

Jerusalem police spokesman Shmuel Ben-Ruby said that an amalgamation of intelligence information has indicated that if the group enters the mount, there was a "real possibility" that violence would break out at the site.

In response, campaign organizer David Ha'Ivri said that his group was going ahead with widely publicized plans to visit the site, and were not planning on canceling the event despite the police announcement.

Hundreds of Jewish and Christian sightseers peacefully visit the holy site on a daily basis during morning visiting hours.

But over the last six months, police and security officials have repeatedly warned of the possibility that Jewish extremists would attack the super-sensitive Jerusalem holy site as a way of sabotaging the planned summer pullout from Gaza.

The head of the domestic Shin Bet (Israel Security Agency) Avi Dichter has said that coupled with the possibility of an assassination attempt on the life of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, the threat of an attack by Jewish extremists on the Temple Mount is of the highest concern among security officials, as Israel prepares to withdraw from Gaza.

In light of the threats, Jerusalem police chief Ilan Franco recently ordered more patrols in and around the compound. Some 700 officers, including regular police, paramilitary border troops and undercover forces are regularly assigned to the Old City alone.

Police said Tuesday that they would further increase their forces outside the Jerusalem holy site on the day of the planned event in order to prevent any attempts of forced entry to the Mount.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...=1112066445934

[Ophra]

Canajew... I warned you yesterday that the next logical step was for KW to edit my posts ..... it's just happened.... the title of this thread was changed.
When are these rogue Mods going to be controlled ??????
(Also sent as PM )

[Ophra]

Newsguy..... they are making a mockery of your site !!!

[Ophra]

"If absolute power corrupts absolutely, does absolute powerlessness make you pure?"
-- Harry Shearer

[Mediocrates]

pretty blue bars.....


I recommend http://www.blogger.com/start

[Canajew]

ok, to get this thread back on topic, kind of agree and kind of don't with the police's decision.

On the one hand, a demonstration by these ultranationalists would not come at a good time for Israel internationally or domestically, and could increase the rift between the anti disingagment groups and the rest of Israeli society (the majority of which are pro-disingagment)

On the other hand, this is basically yielding to the ever present Palestinian threat of violence. All it does is show them that their threats of violence have real, substantive effects, and this is exactly the wrong message we need to send to them.

In addition, part of the reason the palestinians would get violent is because they think the temple mount is THEIRS and theirs alone, and that jews really have no right to be there. And this position is unacceptable, I think, to a majority of Israelis and to me.

All in all, it's a tough call. I think in terms of international relations and asserting the validity of an Israeli presence, the best possibility would be for a large Israeli moderate demonstration on the temple mount. if the Palestinians get violent, it just shows that they are only interested in being bastards and clensing the area of Jews, while if it goes ahead it will both show Israelis and Jews can gather on the mount and would show the world that Israelis are trying to be more peaceful and it is up to the Palestinians to renounce terror as immoral and do something about it.

Not really a peace demonstration but a pro-disingagment, pro-compromise on territorial issues, anti-terror, and be an open call to the Palestinians to step up and address the dysfunctional cult of death they inculcated into their society.

That way everybody wins excpet those who are trying to get the Palestinians to lose utterly and completely. That is not a functional solution, and these ultra-nationalists really do need to be reigned in.

Now can everyone, especially the moderators, please either participate in this thread in a meaningful way or leave it alone.

[Mediocrates]

Participate in what? Look at it from a distance. Squint real hard. See if you can tell the difference between this and say, Egypt. 'State security' is pretty broad proviso, no? For about 20 years people, at least those who aren't completely brainwashed, have wondered why there is no nonviolent movement among the Palestinians if it's possible to imagine that they wouldn't already have their state if they pursued it by nonviolent means? Who or where is the Palestinian Gadhi or MLK?


Nowhere that's where. We naturally assume that any action, no matter what is going to rile the natives lord knows and we can't have that because that would be......bad, I guess, because well, you know how those savages are. They might start burning down the neighborhood again. And what is the consequence of this? No sort of civil action or nonviolent protest is permitted by some paltry Jews who let's face it, aren't going to change policy. Instead we have the iron fist of the state practically fomenting violence in its very attempt to squash nonviolence. Let's face facts, the Israeli government isn't even pretending to deal with the settlers who are, like it or not, going to return to Israel soon in the thousands. And if today is any benchmark you can expect on July 21st to hear rumblings of evacuating 80-100,000 more from the West Bank thereafter. At the same time though you will see a stricter clampdown on rights, I mean, the settlers. They'll be driven from their homes and then silenced and then criminalized. There's a good formula for success.

Good plan, Jews. Stifle public action in order to quash public discourse.

[Mediocrates]

Because remember, we can


NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER

expect those 'lberal' Palestinians to do anything but rise up and hit someone with a rock. You know how they, you know, are.

[Canajew]

Participate in what? Look at it from a distance. Squint real hard. See if you can tell the difference between this and say, Egypt. 'State security' is pretty broad proviso, no? For about 20 years people, at least those who aren't completely brainwashed, have wondered why there is no nonviolent movement among the Palestinians if it's possible to imagine that they wouldn't already have their state if they pursued it by nonviolent means? Who or where is the Palestinian Gadhi or MLK?


Nowhere that's where. We naturally assume that any action, no matter what is going to rile the natives lord knows and we can't have that because that would be......bad, I guess, because well, you know how those savages are. They might start burning down the neighborhood again. And what is the consequence of this? No sort of civil action or nonviolent protest is permitted by some paltry Jews who let's face it, aren't going to change policy. Instead we have the iron fist of the state practically fomenting violence in its very attempt to squash nonviolence. Let's face facts, the Israeli government isn't even pretending to deal with the settlers who are, like it or not, going to return to Israel soon in the thousands. And if today is any benchmark you can expect on July 21st to hear rumblings of evacuating 80-100,000 more from the West Bank thereafter. At the same time though you will see a stricter clampdown on rights, I mean, the settlers. They'll be driven from their homes and then silenced and then criminalized. There's a good formula for success.

Good plan, Jews. Stifle public action in order to quash public discourse.

and all this is a fair point, but only plays into whether they have a right to protest, not that they can choose the exact location. You can't mount an anti-war protest on a military base, and you can't mount a PETA protest at some random mosque or church or synagogue. Where you have a site which is a potential flashpoint for violence which can lead to the death of hundreds, that becomes a valid concern that needs to be addressed too, no?

As for the treatment of settlers in general, it is a difficult issue with a host of complications. they should be granted as many rights as possible, but peace, order and good governance comes first. Reasonable limits on fundamental rights.

But what limits are reaosnable. problem is, much like how the Palestinians want to use rights for illigitimate purposes, there is a minority of settlers who seem bent on fermenting intra-Israeli violence and this needs to be addressed ex ante. There have already been several large anti-disingagment protests, and undoubtedly there will be many more. And that's fine. But there is no need to carry them out in Ramallah, and there is no need to carry them out on the temple mount. At least not now.

[Canajew]

Because remember, we can


NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER

expect those 'lberal' Palestinians to do anything but rise up and hit someone with a rock. You know how they, you know, are.

and that's why I would have little problem with a more moderate, pro peace but not pro peace to the point of stupidity rally on the temple mount. Say we are ready for peace, but you guys have obligations and you better f'ing behave yourselves or you will get squat. Show the Palestinians that the political horizon is legitimate and real and resorting to violence will push it away father than getting them what they want.

[Mediocrates]

But what limits are reaosnable. problem is, much like how the Palestinians want to use rights for illigitimate purposes, there is a minority of settlers who seem bent on fermenting intra-Israeli violence and this needs to be addressed ex ante. There have already been several large anti-disingagment protests, and undoubtedly there will be many more. And that's fine. But there is no need to carry them out in Ramallah, and there is no need to carry them out on the temple mount. At least not now.

Reasonable is as reasonable does. Every year there are clearly planned out marches in Belfast between groups that hate and loathe each other and in each other's neighborhoods. We had the American Nazi Party sue and win from the government the right to march through a Chicago neighborhood with the highest percapita concentration of Holocaust survivors in the US. We routinely have skinhead rallies, Klan rallies, NoI and god knows whatever else. And let me tell you, down here EVERYONE has a gun, limited impulse control and ready access to booze and drugs. If we don't manage to kill each other I then there's hope.

At any rate here's the basic problem. If you let the Palestinians determine the rules of the dialog then you might as well stay home. If on the other hand you demand they bite their tongues for once and behave like the rest of the cell phone using MTV watching world then what is the harm in that. Anything less is simply expecting to become third world miserables.

[Canajew]

At any rate here's the basic problem. If you let the Palestinians determine the rules of the dialog then you might as well stay home. If on the other hand you demand they bite their tongues for once and behave like the rest of the cell phone using MTV watching world then what is the harm in that. Anything less is simply expecting to become third world miserables.

and this is the key point, and one I alluded to above. The Palestinians seem to only be capable of using the threat of violence to get what they want, and this needs to change, and the only way it ever will change is for them to see how badly this works and how counter productive it is.

But at the same time, I have a nagging suspicion that the dmonstrators would be up to no good.

[Mediocrates]

Maybe yes maybe no. Maybe we've become so innured to fear that we no longer have any rational notion of what protest is. Every protest has people screaming at each other, even pushing or worse. It's not playschool. But seemingly in this one little patch of earth we expect a protest to go off like it's inside a library and nothing else will suffice. Well that's just silly and so all the tough talking Sabras who are lining up to relocate all the settlers by any means necessary are either being cowards or fascists.