Gaza violence jeopardises truce

Static · 04-09-2005, 11:03 AM

Does Israel really want peace? I know the people do, but this is absolutely ridiculous. Actions such as these are worthy of condemnation from all people, Arab or Jew aside.

Last time I checked, we are all members of the homo sapiens species.

Gaza violence jeopardises truce

Israeli soldiers have shot dead three Palestinian teenagers on the edge of a refugee camp in southern Gaza.
Witnesses say they were killed trying to retrieve a football in a no-go area near the Egypt border; the Israeli army says it is investigating the report.

It is the most serious such incident since Israeli and Palestinian leaders declared a ceasefire in February.

Hours later, Palestinians fired mortars at Jewish settlements in Gaza, without causing any injuries.

The Palestinian Authority called the killings a "serious violation" of the truce.

'Warning shots'

Witnesses said the group of boys came under fire when they tried to retrieve a football.

"The kids ran after it [the ball], and that's when we heard gunfire," Ali Abu Zeib, a 22-year-old Rafah resident, told the Associated Press news agency.

Reports said at least two of the dead boys were 14 and 15 years old.

The BBC's Alan Johnston in Gaza says the youths had approached a zone along Gaza's border with Egypt, which is occupied and heavily defended by Israeli troops.

He says Israeli military sources say that the youngsters had entered an area along the frontier that is strictly forbidden to Palestinians.

The sources say that warning shots were ignored and then the teenagers were fired at, our correspondent says, noting these are the first Palestinian deaths in violence in Gaza for weeks.

Saeed Siyam, a Hamas leader in Gaza, said the killings would be avenged.

"The Palestinian people cannot stay silent in the face of this crime and it cannot pass without punishment," AP quoted him as saying.

Rocket attack

Following the shootings, Palestinian militants from Islamic Jihad fired at least 14 mortars at Jewish settlements in Gaza.

It is the first time militants have fired rockets at Jewish targets since February when Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas ordered security forces to prevent such attacks.

An Islamic Jihad leader, Mohammed Hindi, told a news conference the truce with Israel remained intact, but called for Palestinians factions to "re-evaluate the situation".

The violence comes amid heightened tension ahead of a planned mass rally on Sunday on the disputed Jerusalem holy site known to Jews as the Temple Mount and to Muslims as Haram al-Sharif (Noble Sanctuary).

The demonstration is being organised by Israelis who want to rebuild a temple on the site.

Palestinian militant groups have threatened a violent response if protesters reach the al-Aqsa Mosque in the hilltop compound.

KettleWhistle · 04-09-2005, 11:13 AM

I'm sorry, but did you miss this part: " Witnesses say they were killed trying to retrieve a football in a no-go area near the Egypt border"

And what does that have to do with "Israel wanting peace?" Israel has been suing for peace since its inception.

**Womble** · 04-09-2005, 03:06 PM

Static, it has nothing to do with wanting or not wanting peace. The truce does not mean that Israel should stop guarding the border. Try trespassing on any military no-go area- US army base, for instance- and you'll see what I mean...if you survive.

That said, the Jerusalem Post has a different version of the story.

The army said a group of youths had entered an unauthorized area near the border with Egypt, began running towards an IDF position and ignored warning shots to stop. The shots were fired by forces patrolling the area in an armed vehicle, the army said.

An Israeli commander at the scene said the youths were spotted crawling on their stomachs deep inside a closed military zone. He said three of the youths got to their feet and began running toward the border. The teenagers were about 250 meters (yards) into the closed area when they were shot on a military patrol road near the border, he said.

"These kids were not playing soccer," said the commander, whose name was withheld under military regulations. "They knew what they were doing. You don't get there by accident."

Israeli defense officials said that according to an initial probe carried out by Palestinian Authority security officials, the three were involved in a weapons smuggling attempt.

Oh and the BBC's claim that "It is the first time militants have fired rockets at Jewish targets since February" is a flat out lie. Aside from the fact that there was a suicide bombing in Israel on February 25, there was also a rocket shooting on Sderot just three days ago.

Static · 04-09-2005, 05:05 PM

Very true, I realize the Israeli version is somewhat reasonable. It was a no trespassing zone, and if the soldiers did indeed fire warning shots (I have a hard time believing that if warning shots were fired, the teenagers proceeded despite), than the teenagers are technically at fault.

I guess we'll see in the following days whether or not more comes to light.

tandem · 04-09-2005, 05:51 PM

the story proves another interesting point, that abu mazen isn't doing anything about terrorists operating in areas that are under his control. PA police are suppose to enforce quiet on the border and prevent the launching of rockets. obviously they are either incapable of doing so or are totally ignorant of their duties.

all you leftist nitwits out there who are in lalaland about peace, who think that this false truce will lead anywhere, just wait and see when kassam rockets fly deeper into israel and strella missiles start shooting down planes.

Static · 04-10-2005, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by tandem

the story proves another interesting point, that abu mazen isn't doing anything about terrorists operating in areas that are under his control. PA police are suppose to enforce quiet on the border and prevent the launching of rockets. obviously they are either incapable of doing so or are totally ignorant of their duties.

all you leftist nitwits out there who are in lalaland about peace, who think that this false truce will lead anywhere, just wait and see when kassam rockets fly deeper into israel and strella missiles start shooting down planes.

That's an insane standard to hold him to. People that inspired by their hatred of Israel will eventually get through the cracks, and while Abbas has done everything he possibly can do to halt militant activity, he can't be 100% successful. Nobody could.

Also, it's thoroughly ridiculous to not hear any condemnation for the deaths of 3 innocent boys from anyone on here.

KettleWhistle · 04-10-2005, 12:01 PM

Innocent boys? I don't know if they are innocent. But it seems that they were either up to no good, i.e. smuggling weapons from Egypt, or they were just stupid. So why should anyone condemn soldiers for doing what they were supposed to do? If these boys went into a clearly-marked minefield, would you be condemning the mines?

**Womble** · 04-10-2005, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Static

That's an insane standard to hold him to. People that inspired by their hatred of Israel will eventually get through the cracks, and while Abbas has done everything he possibly can do to halt militant activity, he can't be 100% successful. Nobody could.

The question is whether he had indeed done everything he could. I haven't heard of much arrests being made.

Also, it's thoroughly ridiculous to not hear any condemnation for the deaths of 3 innocent boys from anyone on here.

The death of teenagers is unfortunate, of course- but condemnation implies allocation of blame, and the way the story looks, it is difficult to tell if the condemnation is warranted. The soldiers, it seems, acted in accordance with the rules of engagement. If warning shots were fired and ignored, the soldiers can't be faulted.

Static · 04-10-2005, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Womble

The question is whether he had indeed done everything he could. I haven't heard of much arrests being made.

I don't think it's a matter of not wanting to take on the militants; I don't think Abbas has enough power to formally challenge the militants. It's in Israels best interest to help to strengthen Abbas so that he can do that.

Originally Posted by Womble

The death of teenagers is unfortunate, of course- but condemnation implies allocation of blame, and the way the story looks, it is difficult to tell if the condemnation is warranted. The soldiers, it seems, acted in accordance with the rules of engagement. If warning shots were fired and ignored, the soldiers can't be faulted.

I fully agree with you here.

**Womble** · 04-10-2005, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Static

I don't think it's a matter of not wanting to take on the militants; I don't think Abbas has enough power to formally challenge the militants. It's in Israels best interest to help to strengthen Abbas so that he can do that.

Just how much power should he have to deal with them? And how, pray tell, is Israel supposed to strengthen Abbas if any cooperation between him and Israel will be seen as him being an Israeli puppet? In fact, I can rather safely advice that the best way for Israel to strengthen Abbas is by constantly demonstrating that we hate his guts- THAT is sure to make the Palestinians love him all the more

Static · 04-10-2005, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Womble

Just how much power should he have to deal with them? And how, pray tell, is Israel supposed to strengthen Abbas if any cooperation between him and Israel will be seen as him being an Israeli puppet? In fact, I can rather safely advice that the best way for Israel to strengthen Abbas is by constantly demonstrating that we hate his guts- THAT is sure to make the Palestinians love him all the more

LOL, sad but true.

I don't think I can set any kind of criteria for how much power Abbas needs to have to have in order to take the militants on, but I'm not alone in my concluding that his current power isn't enough to control the militants.

The honest to God truth is that Abbas is never going to be able to do anything until he rallies the support of the public behind him, and the only thing that would make the people stand firmly behind him would be some type of progress in the peace talks with Israel, but Israel refuses to progress until the militants are reigned in, and Abbas won't really have any real power until he shows the people real promise for a better tomorrow, and so on...

*sigh*

It's a never ending cycle!

**Mediocrates** · 04-10-2005, 04:16 PM

If you're looking for a reason to derail this, you'll find it or make one up either way. Either way this is an unfortunate event. If you want it to be symbolic of how much you hate someone, have at it.

Static · 04-10-2005, 04:33 PM

And if you're looking for a reason to vilify someone or make them out to hold irrational prejudices and hatred even if they don't, you'll find a way. Either way, this is an unfortunate event. If you're looking to abuse someone, then by all means, have at it.

KettleWhistle · 04-10-2005, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Static

And if you're looking for a reason to vilify someone or make them out to hold irrational prejudices and hatred even if they don't, you'll find a way.

Gotta love the irony...

Jonathan-David · 04-10-2005, 07:09 PM

I have heard about this and would have to say it is similar to the American plight in Iraq: If someone doesn't stop at a checkpoint even if warnings have been issued, then they are obligated to fire. This was the situation of the Israeli soldiers. I wouldn't blame either party, it's a misfortunate and tragic event.