Is Israeli Democracy....Hurting Israel?

[Pushtak21]

To look at it in a scope, Israeli democracy, no matter it being left or right, is known as a dove! A dove that is very easy and could compromise no matter what.

But these easy going attitudes might as well harm Israel for what it is, a democracy. Many people, exteme left wing, anti-zionist and Arabs rally against the state and it harms Israel's intrest.

Especailly when a democratic nation allows reisdents in Kfar Qassam and Kfar Kana to hold Land day celebrations which they wave PLO flags. Another is the constant fear of going inside your own country, Israel, to arab cities that might be hostile....how can Umm El Farhm be dangerous city in Israel for the jews...is it a militant stranglehold?

Another part is that when we get bashed, we take it to the polls and sometimes the polls, being the world or us, does not really do any good to the nation...

so is Israeli democracy, hurting Israel itself?

[MErevolutions]

No way...stripping Israel of democracy would be a very, very bad thing to do. The US would obviously end all support if their democratic outlet in the Middle East becomes a dictatorship, and criticism should remain criticism. Even though I find the extreme left and their anti-Zionist counterparts disturbing, Israel has no right to strip them of their freedom unless they are found to actually be aiding terrorist groups.

And yes it is unfortunate that the world disregards the fact that Israel is a democracy but personally I don't think the world's opinion on such a matter is important. What is important is ensuring that Israel will be able to stand up to any military challenge while keeping the people's morale high.

[Ariksan]

This question is an oxymoron since Israel never was a true democracy, much due to the rampant nepotism that existed since '48 and the defacto one party system until Begin won the election for the Likud. The question should be - would Israel be better of with a real democracy? E.g. with a representative government and/or with a second chamber.

[Cyrus the Great]

You could say the same thing for any other country. I mean after all there were anti-war protests in usa, britain, italy, poland and almost every other country that sent troops to iraq. There were people burning american flags in american streets. Do you think that democracy is hurting all these countries ? Do you think that the US should burn its constitution and become a dictatorship ? Israel is no different.
I think the best solution is to invoke patriotism in people. That way almost everyone would agree with the government for the "sake" of their nation.

[KettleWhistle]

Actually, and ironically, the core of the U.S. constitution--the Constitutional Amendments--are undemocratic by their very nature because they supercede anything and everything that may be voted for by the majority of the legislature, approved by the President, and affirmed by the Senate.

Nevertheless, the system like the one in the U.S. would certainly benefit Israel. Most importantly, it would benefit Israel to adapt the ideas of civil service and of the government of the people and for the people, instead of current system of Big Brother government. The biggest problem there is the lack of control the electorate has over the people who govern them, and the corruption and politics deciding many issues without any regard for the general mood and opinions of the citizenry.

But that said, Israel is a democracy not because it allows someone to fly some flag. That's because Israel is a free country. Democracy simply means that citizens have the right and obligation to vote whomever they wish into the government without any obstructions. And such absolutely does not guarntee minority rights, religious rights, protections against discrimination, and other things that commonly, and mistakenly, are ascribed to democracy.

[Pushtak21]

OK, buy say Israel was a socialist/communist state...atleast the countries agenda would be thrown in the front and not allowed for it to be wipped and beaten by all.

Israel is based on democracy and the knesset represents that for the people, but the anti-protestors in Israel are not not much against the policy, but against the country. There are some arabs in Israel that still call it Palestine and would do much harm as they have done, with kidnapping Israeli children, trying to harm Israeli soldiers and working with the enemy.

I mean, we can go and have an oath, where people would pledge legion under the torah, bible and koran, but that would take our secularism and would seperate us from the Socialist system that meant to be; Israel!

[KettleWhistle]

Socialism is a societal order that doesn't allow for private ownership of the means of production, all of which are owned and ran by the state.

Communism, if it ever materialized, would've been socialism in a uniclass society, in which everyone would belong to a comfortable middle class.

Neither of the above have anything to do with what you are talking about. The classical thought along these lines is known as fascism. The word had been tarnished and given a loaded meaning by Italy's participation in WWII, but that's what fascism really is. Its main feature is the idea that state interest can superceed the need for individual freedoms and/or minority rights. Elements of it are present in any society, and they make much sense. The problem is the fact that it is a slippery slope.

[Matan]

Israel can't give up it's democracy, it's the only thing that prevents the world gooing against it officially.
Also considering the alternatives it won't be good for Israel's Economy and the other political issues.

[Mediocrates]

This question is an oxymoron since Israel never was a true democracy, much due to the rampant nepotism that existed since '48 and the defacto one party system until Begin won the election for the Likud. The question should be - would Israel be better of with a real democracy? E.g. with a representative government and/or with a second chamber.

I agree that electoral politics are hosed. Direct proportional voting is a recipe for disaster as opposed to voting wards or districts with strict proportional representation and no 'lists'.

[Gilgamesh]

so is Israeli democracy, hurting Israel itself?

Too superficial.
Good or enlighted dictatorship, is better then a good democracy.
Bad democracy, is infinantly superior then a bad dictatorship.
Problem is, you often get the worst of each... no matter what will you have.

Israel's problem is not with our political system, but with the quality of our leaders, and the abcense of long term vision of for the future. The result is sectorial divisions, where each petty leader takes care only for "his" people, on the expance of others.

Inefficiance of the goverment services, too slow a transition from socialist economy which is built around welfares and social benefits into a modern full free market American style economy, is hard and slow, full of half massures that only hurt everybody without suppling a full working alternative.

Half massures and inability of the leadership to take full responsibility lead to half massures in our war against terrorism, which create the sense of "no solution" atmosphare. Of course there will be no solution, if nobody's willing to take charge and cut the chase and order reasonable order to the point!.

We are a society overtaken by beaurocrats. Yet, never underestimate us. Our society is the most dangerous and most cunning when we seem most weak.

[Gilgamesh]

Israel can't give up it's democracy, it's the only thing that prevents the world gooing against it officially.
Also considering the alternatives it won't be good for Israel's Economy and the other political issues.

Don't give in to common propaganda here at home.
There are things we do for OUR benefit, with out considering the views or ideas of other people in the world.

Democratic system is one.

I wonder how you made it through the cold war, when half the world demanded israel to change to a communist political system, a system that had the image of being more just and more scientific and peaceful. There are still quite a few Israelis who believe that this is the solution to the Jew-Arab war of the last few decades. Do you believe them? I don't!

So democracy is made of our benefit, not to please others, and not as a propaganda stunt.

Too many Israeli politicians use foreign pressure as an excuse of not doing their job or not taking responsibility for their actions.

[Mediocrates]

Mussolini made the trains run on time. OTOH when the anarchists ran the Spanish phone system in the 1920's it actually ran quite well. Go figure.

[Ariksan]

Israel's problem is not with our political system, but with the quality of our leaders, and the abcense of long term vision of for the future. The result is sectorial divisions, where each petty leader takes care only for "his" people, on the expance of others.

I have to disagree that this is not a problem of our political system. We have a political system that encourages and cultivates this behavior. Our system allows nepotism to run rampant. There are no checks and balances to prevent nepotism. Even the prime minister can get away with it without any uproar. In every truly democratic country about every member of Knesset and Minister in Israel - left and right - would end up impeached or in jail.

In the first years of the state of Israel our politicians were driven by ideology - there was hardly anyone in the Israeli political system that was not driven by ideology - left and right. Most of them of course from Mapai - today's labor party. They rewarded party members with jobs and posts in the government. Today there is less ideology. So they don't reward people who think alike but they reward any crook that can give them some sort of advantage or personal gain.

We can only vote for a party list even if we don't like the people on their ticket. That is wrong. I want to be able to vote for each member of Knesset. People should run an individual campaign. They have to answer to the people after 4 years not just try to end up on a top position on their party's list. In Switzerland for example you can cross out people on a party list which you don't like. For example I want to be able to vote for Likud but I don't want Tzahi Hanegbi. So I cross him out. Knesset members should be held accountable for their record in the Knesset.

[Mediocrates]

No that's unworkable. You need voting wards so that you vote for a candidate that represents your ward or district. Because someone who does't represent where you live doesn't represent you or your interests. Voting districts would also flatten the effect or eliminate it entirely, of fringe political parties since fringe parties could not mount successful elections everywhere nor could they get elected in local wards with any real power. You could coopt the fringe parties into the 3 remaining parties and you could elminate a great deal of instability that results from these crazyquilt coalitions. There would no longer be small parties of 3-5 seats who could hold it over your head and demand all kinds of disproportionate favors and funding. You would also find a rationalization or normalization of the power of labor unions since people would be voting their local candidates and local issues and not some handed down agenda.

Leadership I can't help you with because that's your cultural milleu who you pick to lead you.

[KettleWhistle]

Leadership I can't help you with because that's your cultural milleu who you pick to lead you.

So far there haven't been much picking. In the early years Labor usurped power, for the large part that was when they killed off the opposition during the Altalena affair. The later rise of Likud is just a backlash.