A New Kind of Science (Wolfram's Book)

cerulean · 06-10-2002, 04:58 AM

A New Kind of Science, by Stephen Wolfram, (c) 2002.

This book has been hyped enough to deserve its own thread, I think, particularly if it is as multi-faceted as has been claimed. From my quick reading about it, it seems this book focuses on algorithms and their applicability to complexity, and from there to all sorts of scientific and human endeavors.

From the description:
This long-awaited work from one of the world's most respected scientists presents a series of dramatic discoveries never before made public. Starting from a collection of simple computer experiments---illustrated in the book by striking computer graphics---Wolfram shows how their unexpected results force a whole new way of looking at the operation of our universe.

Wolfram uses his approach to tackle a remarkable array of fundamental problems in science: from the origin of the Second Law of thermodynamics, to the development of complexity in biology, the computational limitations of mathematics, the possibility of a truly fundamental theory of physics, and the interplay between free will and determinism.

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Wired article on the premises of the book and its creation: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/1...olfram_pr.html

NYT review: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/09/bo...t&position=top

Available on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...676768-4087223

So has anyone read it? Or at least skimmed it? How valid are his theses?

I'm going to take a look as soon as I get to a bookstore next.

Vic · 06-20-2002, 03:49 AM

I'll hardly have the time to read the book, all 1200 pages of it, in the near future, but judging by the reviews (here is another one: http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/17...niverse+.shtml ) it represents some progress on the way mathematicians, computer scientists and physicians deal with the "soft", more empiric natural sciences, chemistry and biology. Wolfram actually claims that there are not just simple formulas for everything, you have to study the subject properly

Maybe the same should apply to politics and modern history, cf. some of the discussions in this forum?

cerulean · 06-20-2002, 04:08 AM

Originally posted by Vic
I'll hardly have the time to read the book, all 1200 pages of it,

My strategy thus far has been to request various people to read it and then promise to tell me about it, but I've yet to get a volunteer.

Originally posted by Vic
in the near future, but judging by the reviews (here is another one: http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/17...niverse+.shtml ) it represents some progress on the way mathematicians, computer scientists and physicians deal with the "soft", more empiric natural sciences, chemistry and biology.

It seems once you get the cellular automata concept down, it can be applied anywhere and everywhere. In Wolfram's view of the world the algorithm (a nice Arab word there) takes precedence over the equation.

Wolfram actually claims that there are not just simple formulas for everything, you have to study the subject properly

Maybe the same should apply to politics and modern history, cf. some of the discussions in this forum?

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I'm sure the concept that posters should actually study the subject properly first would break some fundamental law of the Internet.

cerulean · 06-24-2002, 11:37 PM

More info about the book:

http://www.wolframscience.com/

From page 1:
If theoretical science is to be possible at all, then at some level the systems it studies must follow definite rules. Yet in the past throughout the exact sciences it has usually been assumed that these rules must be ones based on traditional mathematics. But the crucial realization that led me to develop the new kind of science in this book is that there is in fact no reason to think that systems like those we see in nature should only follow such traditional mathematical rules.

From page 42:
The main result of this chapter--that programs based on simple rules can produce behavior of great complexity--seems so fundamental that one might assume it must have been discovered long ago. But it was not, and it is useful to understand some of the reasons it was not.

Some interesting programs to run:
http://www.wolframscience.com/nks/programs/

In short, looks like a very promising book.

Vic · 06-24-2002, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by cerulean
In short, looks like a very promising book.

Translation: someone please read the 1200 pages for me, soon

cerulean · 06-25-2002, 02:07 AM

Originally posted by Vic

Translation: someone please read the 1200 pages for me, soon

Life is difficult, and alas, one must fend for oneself, I'm afraid.

Vic · 06-26-2002, 09:17 AM

Perhaps this review will suffice for small talk

:
http://www.tehelka.com/channels/comm...stephenopr.htm
I liked it

cerulean · 06-26-2002, 10:44 PM

Originally posted by Vic
Perhaps this review will suffice for small talk :
http://www.tehelka.com/channels/comm...stephenopr.htm
I liked it

It was an enjoyable review. It was nicely dramatic, as so many Indian articles are (Quote: "Wolfram has set humanity free from the tyranny of equations.")

Most of the assessments on Amazon.com agree that Wolfram has overstated his case, like this review also said. (After all, he does seem to say he's solved the problem of free will vs. determinism.)

ibrodsky · 06-29-2002, 08:03 AM

I have a relative who works for Wolfram and was probably involved with the book. I'll see him over the fourth and ask him about it.

cerulean · 06-30-2002, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by ibrodsky
I have a relative who works for Wolfram and was probably involved with the book. I'll see him over the fourth and ask him about it.

Thanks ibrodsky. I look forward to hearing about it.

===
Another review from The Atlantic (this one has some historical background to Wolfram's concepts):

http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/f...fiedtheory.htm

elke · 06-30-2002, 03:01 PM

I still think that the answer to this Question of Everything is 42!

cerulean · 07-04-2002, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by elke
I still think that the answer to this Question of Everything is 42!

I like Douglas Adams' quote about deadlines: I love deadlines - I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by.

Two more reviews:
Blinded by Science: Explaining the media's obsession with Stephen Wolfram's A New Kind of Science.

http://slate.msn.com/?id=2067547 (this reviewer thinks his claims somewhat grandiose - no surprise - and also notes the author provides little detail of these theories actually working)

The World According to Wolfram
http://americanscientist.org/Issues/...2-07Hayes.html
Also bemoans the lack of experimental proof.
Quote: Wolfram warns that developing an intuition for his new kind of science will take months, â€œeven for the most talented and open-minded people.â€

(I think reading 20 reviews should somehow work as being equivalent to actually reading the book, but I don't think it works that way.)