Abbas, Arabs better act fast, or they've lost Jerusalem

[MGB8]

What has become pattently clear in the pain and cost that it has taken to expell the settlers from the Gaza strip, is that there is no way in heck that Israel will expell larger groups from the major WB settlement blocks. Nor will the public support it. On the contrary, Israel will unite behind "greater Jerusalem." Chances are, given the images we are seeing today, that the political pressure on Israel to try to remove the major settlement blocks will be minimal... at best, just lip service to appease the Arabs.

As I have stated before, my guess is that Sharon is trading Gaza for Jerusalem. He knows that much of the WB cannot be held re: demographics. He also knows that, after the pain of Gaza, natural growth and expansion of the major settlement blocks will essentially "fill in" the "Israeli side" of the security fence, and that these populations will not be moved, the Israeli majority will fight for them, and the world will not hole-heartedly ask.

What Sharon is gambling on is that the Arabs are so detached from reality, so uncompromising, that they WILL NOT make a legitimate offer for peace right now.

Think of it. How could Sharon lose this gamble. Easy. Abbas could offer a Camp David like agreemend, token right of return (Israel decides who gets in, or some compensation scheme with proofs), a part of Jerusalem is divided, and REAL security guarantees - for example, 3 party control over Pal Arab borders - Israeli, Pal Arab, and International - all working together, including in the Gaza airport and seaport. Maybe bring in Jordan to offer assistance fighting the terrorist groups, and a pledge to fight them if they attack Israel.

Now, he won't do this. And if he did, Israel could simply say... we have no reason to believe you - hold a referendum on it, spelling out to your people what your compromises will be - how you will actually disarm terrorist groups and KILL those who attack Israel... how you will share security on the border with Israel... how you will, for all intents and purposes, give up the right of return - give up the goal of the destruction of Israel. Because, since you, Abbas, have not shown an ability to control anything, we won't believe you unless a strong majority vote this plan through. We'll have a similar referendum on acceptance, too.

Clearly, the Arabs would never accept this plan.

And so the major settlement blocks will grow, and, within a generation, they will be annexed to Israel, while much of the WB will be renounced. The Pal Arabs will have lost Jerusalem. Oh, they can war if they want, and will be responded to in kind... but it will be over.

Sharon is gambling on the Pal Arab inability to compromise or control their Jew hatered. It looks like a sure bet.

[savvy]

The recent statements of Palestinian leaders warning of "grave consequences" of the "provocative" decision by Israel to allow Jews to visit the Temple Mount are only the latest in a history of attempts by Arab leaders to minimize or deny the historical connection between Jews and the Temple Mount. Arab newspapers and speakers consistently refer to Jewish connections to the Temple Mount as "alleged."


HISTORY

The Temple Mount, which Arabs refer to as the Haram al-Sharif and on which today the Al-Aqsa Mosque is located, is the site on which the biblical King Solomon erected his Temple nearly 1000 years before the Common Era (see I Kings 5:15-7:51). This First Temple was destroyed by the armies of the Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar in the sixth century BCE, and was replaced by a Second Temple some seventy years later. The Second Temple was destroyed in the year 70 C.E. by Roman armies, whose victory was immortalized in the Arch of Titus that may be seen in Rome to this day. Jews have venerated the site of the two Temples and have made pilgrimages there for two thousand years. According to some rabbis, Jewish law prohibits Jews from entering the Temple Mount before undergoing rituals of purification that are not currently practiced; partly as a result of this prohibition, Jews for millennia have prayed at the Western Wall of the Temple Mount, outside the Mount proper.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"For 34 years [the Israelis] have dug tunnels [around the Temple Mount]…they found not a single stone proving that the Temple of Solomon was there, because historically the Temple was not in Palestine [at all]. They found only remnants of a shrine of the Roman Herod… They are now trying to put in place a number of stones so that they can say 'We were here.' This is nonsense. I challenge them to bring a single stone from the Temple of Solomon."



Yasser Arafat
Al-Hayat (London), October 5, 2002
[Trans. MEMRI and BBC Worldwide Monitoring]

"The claims being made by the rulers of Israel and its rabbis about the alleged Temple are pure fabrications without any base or foundation."


Statement by the Higher Islamic Authority of Palestine
Al-Quds (PA), December 28, 2001
[Trans. BBC Worldwide Monitoring]

Sabri: There is not [even] the smallest indication of the existence of a Jewish Temple on this place in the past. In the whole city, there is not even a single stone indicating Jewish history. Our right, on the other hand, is very clear. This place belongs to us for 1500 years. Even when it was conquered by the Crusaders, it remained Al-Aqsa, and we got it back soon afterwards. The Jews do not even know exactly where their Temple stood. Therefore, we do not accept that they have any rights, underneath the surface or above it.

Die Welt: It is agreed among archeologists that the Wailing-Wall is part of the foundation of Herod's temple. The Bible and other antique sources report about this place in detail. Why can't you respect the Jewish connection to this place?

Sabri: It is the art of the Jews to deceive the world. But they can't do it to us. There is not a single stone in the Wailing-Wall relating to Jewish History. The Jews cannot legitimately claim this wall, neither religiously nor historically. The Committee of the League of Nations recommended in 1930, to allow the Jews to pray there, in order to keep them quiet. But by no means did it acknowledge that the wall belongs to them.

Die Welt: Why don't you allow Israeli scientists to dig there to look for possible remnants and proofs for or against the existence of the Jewish temple?

Sabri: We categorically reject all excavations under the Al-Aqsa mosque, because they would endanger the historical buildings on the site. Besides, they have already dug everywhere. All they could find were remnants of buildings from the Omayyad-period. Everything they excavated was related to Arabs and Muslims.


Sheikh `Ikrima Sabri
PA-appointed Mufti of Jerusalem
Interviewed by German magazine Die Welt, January17, 2001
[Trans. MEMRI]

"As is known, the Jews have no religious shrines in the Palestinian territories, especially in Jerusalem, except this claim for which there is no religious or historical proof -- the claim that the Temple of Solomon or its ruins are buried under the foundations of the blessed Al-Aqsa mosque!"


Al-Jazirah (Saudi Arabia) editorial
December 29, 2000
[Trans. BBC Worldwide Monitoring]

"President Arafat said that no one can impose anything on us with regard to Jerusalem. He pointed out that there are attempts to usurp parts of Jerusalem, like the Armenian neighborhood. He added: I cannot accept that. I cannot betray the Armenians' property and churches, because these are integral parts of holy Jerusalem. He reiterated that the Wailing Wall [the Western Wall], as they call it, is Al-Buraq Wall which is an Islamic waqf religious endowment since the issuance of Umar's Covenant. He noted that it was the Shore phonetic Committee which allowed the Jews to pray in that place. He said that Al-Buraq Wall is the property of Islamic Awqaf. He added that even chief rabbis prevented prayers there, because it was not proven yet that the temple is located there."


Voice of Palestine (Ramallah)
September 3, 2000
[Trans. BBC Worldwide Monitoring]

"[The Israelis] claim that 2000 years ago they had a Temple [on the Temple Mount]. I challenge the claim that this is so. But even if it is so, we do not accept [current Israeli claims on the Temple Mount]."


Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen)
Kul Al-Arab (Israel), August 25, 2000
[Trans. MEMRI]

"No stone of the Al-Buraq wall [the Western Wall] has any relation to Judaism. The Jews began praying at this wall only in the nineteenth century, when they began to develop [national] aspirations…"


Sheikh `Ikrima Sabri
PA-appointed Mufti of Jerusalem
Kul Al-Arab (Israel), August 18, 2000
[Trans. MEMRI]

"[The Israelis] are insisting on sovereignty over the Al-Aqsa mosque on the pretext that an Israeli Temple is buried beneath it and that, through their continued sovereignty, they can one day unearth it…Their claim was not substantiated by the excavations they carried out around and under the mosque. However, they insisted on their demand to pray in the courtyard of the mosque."


Nabil Sha'ath
PA Minister of Planning and International Cooperation
Voice of Palestine (PA), July 26, 2000
[Trans. BBC Worldwide Monitoring]

"[Sheikh Yusuf Salamah, Undersecretary of the PA Awqaf and Religious Affairs Ministry] warned of the dangerous excavations which the Israeli Antiquities Department is carrying out under the [Al-Aqsa] mosque [on the Temple Mount]. He underscored that the holy city is Arab and Islamic and pointed out the failure of all Israeli attempts and claims with regard to the existence of the Temple."


Al-Quds (PA), July 15, 2000
[Trans. BBC Worldwide Monitoring]

"As to what has been happening inside the Holy City, not only the Moroccan quarter has been seized and demolished, Your Majesty, as the two of us discussed previously, to widen the so-called Wailing Wall [the Western Wall]. To do this, the tombs of the Moroccan Muslim Imams would be affected. They removed them. Not only this, but [the Israelis] have also been trying to take over houses, shops, lanes and streets, either under the pretext of exploration or, as they recently did by closing the major gates of the mosque to conduct the so-called exploration operation of what they called the remains of the Solomon Temple when all the historical evidence, Your Majesty, proved that it was not there at all in another place far away from this spot. This is what historians had been saying."


Yasser Arafat
Addressing the "Jerusalem Committee" in Marrakesh, Morocco
January 25, 1992
[Trans. BBC Worldwide Monitoring]

[MGB8]

I wonder what Christians, whose tie to Jerusalem is based on the Jewish tie to Jerusalem, have to say about these statements...

[savvy]

I

wonder what Christians, whose tie to Jerusalem is based on the Jewish tie to Jerusalem, have to say about these statements...

As a Christian I think the Arab Christians should convert to Islam, cause they think Jesus was a Palestinian Arab and have no knowledge of Biblical history or are just extremely, extremely stupid. They should pray for intelligence. Just look at this.

Radicalized Palestinian Christian Group Pushes Protestant Churches Toward Divestment


New York, NY, August 23, 2005 … The recent effort by various mainline Protestant denominations to adopt a policy of divestment against companies doing business with Israel has been pushed from behind the scenes by a radicalized Jerusalem-based Palestinian Christian group.

According to the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), the Sabeel Ecumenical Liberation Theology Center is a driving force behind the churches' anti-Israel divestment campaigns, actively promoting divestment through speakers and documents that provide a blueprint for churches to use divestment as a tool to pressure Israel.

"The Sabeel Center has long played a behind-the-scenes role in encouraging churches to adopt divestment as a tool to pressure Israel," said Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director. "Leaders of the mainline Protestant denominations have routinely welcomed Sabeel leaders as guests at conventions and national meetings, and the influence of Sabeel in advocating for divestment is indisputable, however out of sync their rhetoric is with the people in the pews. Sabeel is the engine that is driving the divestment campaign."

Earlier this year, the Sabeel Center released "A Call for Morally Responsible Investment: A Nonviolent Response to the Occupation" (April 2005). The document offers Protestant leadership a handbook on the justification and implementation of a divestment from Israel plan.

"The Sabeel document artfully claims morality and responsibility for its irresponsible and amoral accusations against Israel," said Rabbi Gary Bretton-Granatoor, ADL Director of Interfaith Affairs. "It completely ignores the efforts Israel has made to attain peace, and fails to recognize the terrorism and violence perpetrated by Palestinians aimed at destroying the State of Israel."

[MGB8]

I guess the money changers in the temple were really in a mosque, or in Yemen... right? Nor did Jesus have any Jewish teachings? Passover seder/last supper... what is that? Apostles...Jewish ones... nah, can't be. Clearly, the Zionist conspiracy overwhelmed the early Church and inserted references to the old testament and Judaism and Jerusalem in their effort to control the world...

[savvy]

NEW YORK - A small rally to support the Israeli pullout from Gaza ended Monday with a Muslim leader embracing an Orthodox Jewish rabbi whose organization opposes Israel's right to exist and supports a Palestinian state.
Ghazi Khankan, who was executive director of the regional Council on American-Islamic Relations from 2000 to 2004, approached Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss and hugged him after appealing for an evenhanded U.S. foreign policy and a state where Muslims, Jews and Christians can live together peacefully.

Weiss, looking somewhat surprised, returned the hug with a smile.

The organization he represents, Neturei Karta International, claims Zionism is against Jewish law written in the Torah and says the creation of Israel has exacerbated anti-Semitism.

It called the rally to express gratitude for the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza, which Weiss said is a "token beginning" of righting a historic wrong - a view supported by Khankan, who was also president of the National Council on Islamic Affairs for 10 years...

At Monday's rally, more than 40 Orthodox Jewish men in black hats and long black coats from Neturei Karta stood in the summer heat in Dag Hammarskjold Plaza near the United Nations, some holding placards saying "Torah Forbids Any Jewish State" and "Judaism Rejects Zionism and the State of Israel." One held a placard with a Palestinian state including all of Israel, and a young boy held a Palestinian flag.

Before Zionists started pressing for a Jewish state in the early 1900s, Weiss said, Jews lived in harmony with Muslims.

"Zionism brought about this terrible rift, this mistrust that we can't live in Muslim lands," he said. "It's a terrible tragedy. We can live together."

"We pray everyday for the speedy dismantlement of this rule of the state of Israel so that it should be transformed into the rule of the Palestinian people, so Jews can live together with Arabs, Muslims in harmony. ... Nothing else will bring an ongoing long-lasting peace," Weiss said.

[MGB8]

Very sad indeed. Jews who want to be dhimmis. Well, let them move to an Islamic state and pay the Jizyah.

[atricnorth]

does this ring a bell to you all

the prophets or baal, slash them selves with knives, cutting themselves to show baal blood, that baal will hear them.

the scenario above, sounds like the muslims who slash themselves during the festival, where they used chains to beat themselves.

elijah taunted them, shout louder, maybe your god is sleeping.

he is in deep thought, busy or traveling

verse 28: they slashed themselves with swords, as it was their custom( ring a bell).

no response, no one answered, no one paid attention.


shoute louder mazen, maybe your god is dead, he must be sleeping, busy and traveling.

the bombs have not awaken muhammad. he is in hell with hitler and salehuddin