Anti-Zionism vs. Anti-Semitism: classification

[Womble]

Dear audience:

In light of the constant arguments over whether or not the anti-Semites and the anti-Zionists are the same animal, I have taken on myself the dirty and ungrateful task of distinguishing between and classifying these two more or less equally repulsive and annoying types of pest. In my many past cyberspace travels I was frequently forced to confront these often ferocious, yet rarely intelligent critters, flush them out of hiding and (in the vast majority of cases) successfully slay and skin many of their specimen in various debates. I believe the accumulated experience will allow me to create a more or less accurate classification.

Indeed, ladies and gentlemen, the question of whether the anti-Semites and the anti-Zionists belong to the same ideological breed is more complex than it appears. At first sight, the two may appear distinct from each other, as the anti-Zionists claim to only direct their fangs at Israel and not at the Jewish people. However, so many exceptions to this rule have been observed and recorded that many researchers came to conclude that the two are in fact one and the same- a claim supported by the fact that all anti-Semites are invariably anti-Zionists. The exceptionally high rate of cross-breeding further complicates matters. However, I suggest that the distinction may be made clear if the two are examined against a definition of Zionism, against which the anti-Zionists are believed to have evolved.

For the purpose of my research, I have adopted the definition of Zionism as proposed by the Wikipedia, which, to my knowledge, is not contradicted by any academic sources:

Zionism is a political movement and an ideology that supports a Jewish homeland in the Land of Israel, where the Jewish nation originated and where Jewish kingdoms and self governing states existed at various times in history.

An anti-Zionist, then, would have to be someone who is opposed to the creation of a Jewish homeland in the Land of Israel.

At the same time, anti-Semitism is defined by the same source as hostility towards or prejudice against Jews, therefore we will define an anti-Semite as a person harboring or expressing the aforementioned hostility ot prejudice in any way or form. Observed examples of anti-Semitism were for the most part religious or racial/ethnic, but other forms have also been noticed.

These definition will provide us with the basis for the below classification.

Species of Anti-Semits

Typical Anti-Semite

As a rule, the Typical Anti-Semite (TAS) is a sub-species of the Typical Racist (TR) with a particular thirst for Jewish flesh. He is a rather miserable and nasty smelling critter found in large quantities on the neo-Nazi website. Invading a decent web forum, the TAS specimen usually act as pests, leaving their toxic verbal excrement in the corners and occasionally hijacking a thread or two.

A Typical Anti-Semite attacks Jews because they are Jews and makes little effort to disguise his agenda. Occasionally, he may also direct his attacks at Israel, but only as a way of "proving" his paranoid fantasies of Jews as omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent and infinitely evil beings.

Religious Anti-Semite

The Religious Anti-Semite(RAS), usually found on Christian or Muslim forums, differs very little from the Typical anti-Semite, except in his rhetorics. While a Typical Racist will usually attempt to support his case with perverted interpretations of scientific theories such as evolution and genetics, the RAS will defend his hatred with extensive quotes from the New Testament or the Qur'an. Quite often he will site the killing of Jesus or the Qur'anic story of Jews violating treaties with Mohammed as an example of Jewish evilness. However, when it comes to political matters, the two will become near indentical in their obsessive desire to explain anything and everything by the supposed power and influence of the evil Jews. Therefore, some researchers insist on classifying both TAS and RAS as the same species, "antisemitismus vulgaris".



Species of Anti-Zionist

Anti-Zionist From Ignorance

Usually of moderate to high intelligence, but of limited knowledge, the Anti-Zionist From Ignorance is not an anti-Zionist per se. He is not really against Israel, but rather disagrees with the way Israel behaves here and there. While AZFI may at times declare himself an anti-Zionist, his self-identification as one is usually more a matter of herd mentality than anything else. Unaware of what Zionism is, the AZFI merely seeks a fancy name and a group to join in his opposition to certain policies of the state of Israel, which he for one reason or another finds illegitimate or unjustified. AZFI is usually a fairly reasonable person, and as long as he does not mutate into a different species by becoming an opponent of the very existence of the state of Israel, he can be reasoned with. The claims AZFI makes and the opinions he expresses may be right or wrong, but they never merit a charge of anti-Semitism. However, obsessive singling out Israel for scrutiny while ignoring similar offenses by other countries may make some of the AZFI specimen suspects in this regard, and other species often masquerade as AZFI to gain legitimacy for their more harmful theories.

Judeo-Anti-Zionists, a.k.a. Neturei Karta
The JAZ is typically an Orthodox Jewish fanatic from a number of tiny sects like the Satmar hassids, whose opposition to the existence of Israel has nothing to do with what Israel does or what policies it implements. It is a purely religious fundamentalist position, that holds that creating a Jewish state violates the tenets of Judaism, namely the so-called Three Oaths (an unilateral commitment of the Jews to not restore their statehood for as long as the non-Jewish nations do not overly persecute them in their exile. It was believed that by restoring their statehood the Jews have the power to bring about the End of Days), and that only a Messiah is allowed to do that. In addition, the JAZ do not consider Israel a truly Jewish state as Israel is a secular country not governed by the Jewish religious law. Fairly common among the Jewish Orthodoxy during the early 20 century, the JAZ position is a laughing stock for both the modern and the secular Jews today, and their theology is widely believed to have been invalidated by the Holocaust (it being an attempt to destroy the entire Jewish nation).

[Womble]

Utopian Anti-Nationalist, a.k.a. Dreamer Against Common Sense

The Utopian Anti-Nationalist's opposition the existence of Israel stems from his general opposition to nationalism, defined borders between nations and the concept of the State in general. Since the UAN lives in the fantasy world of his own and is usually removed far enough from any actual decision making to never see the practical implementation of his vision, he can afford to preach impossible ideas for a magical solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict.

While some of the other species of Anti-Zionist will often employ UAN arguments when cornered, a true consistent UAN is a fairly rare breed. Debating with him is usually useless, as he is immune to facts and logic of the real world and his theories are invariably non-falsifiable.

Moralist Against Israel
The MAI specimen, as a rule, argue against the existence of Israel from moral grounds- he claims that the creation of Israel was an injustis to the Palestinians and therefore was an immoral act. This puts him into an unenviable and completely indefensible position when confronted by the charge that denying self-determination to the Jewish people is in itself immoral, unjust and contrary to the international law, which asserts that self-determination is each nation's inalianable right. A cornered MAI has a very limited choice of defense strategies, neither of which can save him:

1)The MAI may adopt the UAN rhetorics, claiming that the Jews are no longer persecuted in the West and therefore have no need for self-rule. Aside from the fact that this position remains inherently unjust as it denies the Jews their inalienable rights, the MAI is forced to constantly close his eyes to the existence of large numbers of TAS and RAS in the Western states, to frequent anti-Semitic attacks and to the fact that the Jews are still discriminated against in many countries of the world. Usually, he will attempt to rationalize all this by blaming it on Israel, as if the levels of anti-Semitism were any lower before Israel's creation and as if they did not culminate in the Holocaust in exactly those societies where the Jews were formerly considered well-established.

A masquerading MAI can be rather easily distinguished from the true UAN, since where a true UAN would oppose the very concept of national self-determination within defined borders, a MAI will still insist on the national self-determination being an inalienable right for the Palestinians, the Kosovars, the Iraqis- in short, for anyone but the Jews.

2)The MAI may claim that the Jews are not really a nation, but rather a religion. This is a peculiar claim of relatively recent origin, since before the creation of Israel there was no doubt whatsoever as for the nationhood of the Jews. The only argument that may be offered in support of this position is the great sub-ethnic and sub-cultural diversity within the Jewish nation- yet many other nations possess even greater diversity and their nationhood is not being denied. The Arabs, for example, are extremely diverse in ethnic types and sub-cultures, their language serving as the sole unifying factor in exactly the same way as the Jewish tradition is for the Jews. Moreover, the direct hereditory link between different Jewish sub-ethnicities has been repeatedly confirmed by genetic research (of all existing Jewish sub-ethnicities, including the Black Ethiopean Jews, only the Jews of Libya were found to have little to none of the original Israelite ancestry).

3)Finally, the MAI may attempt to claim that the modern day Jews are somehow not the descendants of the Jews who were exiled from the Land of Israel. This tactic may assume two different shapes, both of which are racist. One possibility is for the MAI to suggest that the Jews have undergone substantial assimilation with the host nations, thereby losing their right for statehood in Israel. This, however, is a non-sequitur unless we assume that a nation's rights should be dependent on its genetic purity- an obviously racist and illegitimate position. The other alternative for MAI is to subscribe to the odd theory suggested by Arthur Koestler in his book "The Thirteenth Tribe"- that the modern Jews are in fact descendant of the Khazars, a Turkish tribe that has converted to Judaism in the early Middle Ages. Aside from the fact that this, too, has been disproved by genetic testing, anthropological research and historical records, this theory would imply that the Jewish nation in its entirety has perpetrated an identity theft of enormous proportions and continues to maintain it for over a thousand years- in other words, whoever believes in this has to subscribe to one of the most ambitions and least believable anti-Jewish conspiracy theories ever invented. This way, while the MAI in question may not be a conscious anti-Semite in his heart or mind, the nature of his ideology makes him one in practice.

Rabid Anti-Zionist
A Rabid Anti-Zionist often has no record of making anti-Semitic statements or otherwise expressing his hostility for the Jews as a people or to Judaism as a religion. He even boasts having one or more Jewish friends (which may or may not really exist), who think exactly the way he does. In fact, on the majority of common discussion subjects he may appear as a reasonable person- until the moment when the first mention of Israel, however brief or irrelevant, happens.

At this point, the RAZ experiences a massive loss of IQ and sanity, and launches a barrage of icoherent hateful rants, the ferocity of which even the most hate-filled, savage TAS could not rival. While not subscribing consistently to any specific form of anti-Zionism, the RAZ liberally borrows the fancier soundbites from them all and throws in for good measure his favorite ingredient- classic anti-Semitism redesigned for use against "Zionists". Israel. It is the RAZ who is most likely to claim that the "Zionists" rule America and the rest of the world by proxy, that they control the press, that the Mossad is behind the Islamic terrorism, the tsunami and the global warming. Sooner or later, anyone dealing with a RAZ recognizes the familiar themes and comes to the only logical conclusion: that the RAZ is in fact nothing but a thinly disguised TAS.


At this point, I will end my classification for the time being. Additional entries will follow once more species of Anti-Semites and Anti-Zionists are observed, captured and described. Thank you for your attention.

[Aliph]

Thank you for this thread.

I really wanted to learn about the difference through someone first hand.

I look forward to reading more of your posts on this subject.

Dont get upset at my ignorance but what is the definition of Jewish homeland for Zionists. Is it the greater Isreal, Current Israel or borders dont matter as long as it governs Jerusalem ?

[Mil]

Moi dryg i ychitel alkash s bakolei
Skazal mne chto semiti prostie evrei

[Cato]

Class-Self Hating Jew

Example-Noam Chomsky, Israel Shahak

Description-The Self Hating Jew goes along with what the TAS has to say and do. He/She is likely to support Holocaust Deniers from behind closed doors, and do it subtly, the way Noam Chomsky wrote the introduction to Faurrison's book, and when the bastard was fired defended his "Historical findings" rather then his right to say anything to the french authorities. Or as did Israel Shahak will go one step further writing his/her own book that claims the Russian, and Ukrainian Anti-Semites of the 17th, 18th, 19th, and early 20th century were heros, that jews worship Satan three times a day, and Jews are taught to utter a curse whenever they pass a non jewish cemetary. They also defend the TAS like when Chomsky called Faurrison an "Apolitical Liberal". When confronted with their work they will deny it, and claim they are being persecuted for merely criticizing the Israeli Government. They work as hard as they can to help Malcolm X's theory that jews are the greatest opressors in the world, and are often quoted by the tAS while he/she tries to sound reasonable.

[Mil]

Chomsky is simply a moron.

[MGB8]

There is one thing that all of that ignores. The founding of Israel should have prejudiced NO ONE, as the Palestine mandate was divided along demographic lines. To give sovereignty to a coherent group on lands where they form a majority, where there is no sovereign, as the case with the founding of Israel, cannot be described as unjust under any terms.

As for the borders of "Zionist" Israel... there is no direct connection. Being a Zionist does not imply you believe in this set of border or that set of borders. There are those that support a "greater Israel" - ostensibly meaning from the river to the sea, the whole of the Western part of the Palestine Mandate, as was agreed in the King Feisal-Weisman agreement. There is a tiny group that wants more. Given that the majority of the Israeli public supports a two state solution... well, obviously the strength of the "greater Israel" movement is not all that large. And, also remember that there are reasons to want to retain the WB and/or Gaza outside of "greater Israeli" ideological ones - pragmatic security reaons.

[Womble]

Wow, it sure took this thread some time to get noticed.

[Aliph]

There is one thing that all of that ignores. The founding of Israel should have prejudiced NO ONE, as the Palestine mandate was divided along demographic lines. To give sovereignty to a coherent group on lands where they form a majority, where there is no sovereign, as the case with the founding of Israel, cannot be described as unjust under any terms.

As for the borders of "Zionist" Israel... there is no direct connection. Being a Zionist does not imply you believe in this set of border or that set of borders. There are those that support a "greater Israel" - ostensibly meaning from the river to the sea, the whole of the Western part of the Palestine Mandate, as was agreed in the King Feisal-Weisman agreement. There is a tiny group that wants more. Given that the majority of the Israeli public supports a two state solution... well, obviously the strength of the "greater Israel" movement is not all that large. And, also remember that there are reasons to want to retain the WB and/or Gaza outside of "greater Israeli" ideological ones - pragmatic security reaons.

Thank you for the information.

I really dont see why two nations can not live together side by side. I guess earlier the Arabs accepts this fact the better for the whole of middle east.

[MGB8]

Its understandable at this very moment. We're talking a real estate squable right now - how much of the WB goes to the Pal Arabs, how much they keep. Of course, that's presuming that the so called "right of return" is off the table, which is a big if. If its not - well, its beyond Israel's red line, and no agreement is possible from the Israeli side.

Its pretty clear that Sharon is trying to take Jerusalem off the negotiating block via force of time. The longer the Pal Arabs are unable to seriously come to the table (meaning that they are still not willing to confront terror, incitement, and their demands still call for things that highly endanger Israel - no involvement on borders, free crossing INTO Israel, and the "right of return") the longer no agreement is reasonable possible, and there is no real pressure to reach agreement. The longer this is the case, the more "Judaized" is Jerusalem, the harder it is to divide. Granted, some of the Arab sections on the outskirts, that are part of municiple Jerusalem now but weren't considered part in 1967, will be easy to partition off, but the more central areas.

The Pal Arabs realize this is what is going on. I think most Israelis do, too. But the Pal Arabs don't have the will to effectively be near a position to make peace with Israel right now, and the Israelis are not going to both sacrifice part of the "eternal, undivided capitol of the Jewish people" AND stick their necks out, big time, just to be nice to the Pal Arabs.

The Pal Arabs are stuck between asking the international community to press Israel not to change the demographics on land Israel has already annexed (any Arab in Jerusalem CAN BECOME an Israeli citizen, they just, for political reasons, have chosen not to), or they can choose to war, in which case they lose, even with suicde bombs, Israel has proven that it is stronger.

Actually, if the Pal Arabs were REALLY smart, and they really valued East Jerusalem so much, they would trade Israeli security presence on the Gaza-Egypt and WB-Jordan Borders, and at Customs points, for parts of Jerusalem. I think that if they offered that, the Israeli public just might be swayed. Otherwise, the idea that half of Jerusalem is contiguous with lands that has uncontrolled borders (read: weapons flows) to Egypt and Jordan... Israelis aren't THAT stupid.

[Kautilya]

Chomsky is simply a moron.

What exactly about chomsky's work do you find objectionable? I read "For Reasons of State" and I found it to be quite decent in its views. He didn't seem to me as a screaming appeaser. So what exactly is your point?

[Mil]

Posted by Katiliya:

What exactly about chomsky's work do you find objectionable? I read "For Reasons of State" and I found it to be quite decent in its views. He didn't seem to me as a screaming appeaser. So what exactly is your point?

[MGB8]

See "MAI," above.

What exactly about chomsky's work do you find objectionable? I read "For Reasons of State" and I found it to be quite decent in its views. He didn't seem to me as a screaming appeaser. So what exactly is your point?

[SteveK]

Its understandable at this very moment. We're talking a real estate squable right now - how much of the WB goes to the Pal Arabs, how much they keep. Of course, that's presuming that the so called "right of return" is off the table, which is a big if. If its not - well, its beyond Israel's red line, and no agreement is possible from the Israeli side.

Its pretty clear that Sharon is trying to take Jerusalem off the negotiating block via force of time. The longer the Pal Arabs are unable to seriously come to the table (meaning that they are still not willing to confront terror, incitement, and their demands still call for things that highly endanger Israel - no involvement on borders, free crossing INTO Israel, and the "right of return") the longer no agreement is reasonable possible, and there is no real pressure to reach agreement. The longer this is the case, the more "Judaized" is Jerusalem, the harder it is to divide. Granted, some of the Arab sections on the outskirts, that are part of municiple Jerusalem now but weren't considered part in 1967, will be easy to partition off, but the more central areas.

The Pal Arabs realize this is what is going on. I think most Israelis do, too. But the Pal Arabs don't have the will to effectively be near a position to make peace with Israel right now, and the Israelis are not going to both sacrifice part of the "eternal, undivided capitol of the Jewish people" AND stick their necks out, big time, just to be nice to the Pal Arabs.

The Pal Arabs are stuck between asking the international community to press Israel not to change the demographics on land Israel has already annexed (any Arab in Jerusalem CAN BECOME an Israeli citizen, they just, for political reasons, have chosen not to), or they can choose to war, in which case they lose, even with suicde bombs, Israel has proven that it is stronger.

Actually, if the Pal Arabs were REALLY smart, and they really valued East Jerusalem so much, they would trade Israeli security presence on the Gaza-Egypt and WB-Jordan Borders, and at Customs points, for parts of Jerusalem. I think that if they offered that, the Israeli public just might be swayed. Otherwise, the idea that half of Jerusalem is contiguous with lands that has uncontrolled borders (read: weapons flows) to Egypt and Jordan... Israelis aren't THAT stupid.

Check out this website:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Houdini

Harry Houdini became world-renowned for his stunts and feats of escapology even more so than his magical illusions.

You think to strategically shackle the Arabs while playing only the survival game with them on their Middle Eastern turf ???

After 3,500+ years of Jewish heritage, the Jews and Israelis can think of nothing more than just getting down on all fours with the Arabs???

The Jews and Israelis add new meaning to the word "stupid".

[tzanchan]

Chomsky is simply a moron.

i am pretty sure chomsky would fall into the intelligent classification considering he is considered one of the brightest minds in linguistic theory.