India upset: Israeli drones crash rate unacceptable

[Womble]

India: Israeli drones crash

India has expressed concern over the high crash rate of its Israeli-made spy drones, taking up the issue with Israeli officials, media reports said Thursday.

Four of the 50 Searcher and Heron unmanned aerial vehicles India purchased from Israel have crashed over the last two years, the Press Trust of India news agency quoted Defense Minister Pranab Mukherjee as telling parliament in a written response.

According to PTI, Mukherjee said investigations attributed the crashes to systems failure.

Indian defense officials have raised the issue with their Israeli counterparts and the manufacturer, Israel Aircraft Industries, has agreed to repair the drones for free, he said.

"A continuous and multifaceted effort is under way in the defense forces to enhance and upgrade safety of the UAV's," Mukherjee wrote, adding that measures to enhance the quality of training were also being pursued.

In one of the crashes, an Indian air force handler was killed, PTI reported.

Israel has emerged as a leading arms supplier to India, and ties between the countries have warmed considerably over the past five years.

Last year, Israel agreed to sell three PHALCON airborne early warning systems to India. The USD 1.1 billion deal was Israel's biggest one-time sale of military hardware ever.

The Heron UAVs can fly more than 1,000 kilometers (625 miles) at altitudes above 7,620 meters (25,000 feet) for more than 24 hours, according to Israel Aircraft Industries.

The UAVs are deployed along India's border with Pakistan and in the strife-torn Himalayan region of Kashmir, which both South Asian nations claim in its entirety.

Ouch. Either the IAI quality control has declined, or the Indian handlers of the UAVs lack the skills and the training. Not good either way.

[Ferdie]

Ouch. Either the IAI quality control has declined, or the Indian handlers of the UAVs lack the skills and the training. Not good either way.

Womble,
I think the crashes would have something to do with the handling skills of our boys, although some crashes may be technical glitches. I mean who the hell has managed to crash a UAV on own personnel or himself. The extract below from the article posted by you sums it up.

In one of the crashes, an Indian air force handler was killed, PTI reported.

[Womble]

Update on this story from Jerusalem Post.

IAI denies its drones crashed in India

Israel Aircraft Industries flatly denied Thursday reports from India that its spy drones were prone to crashes.

New Delhi has complained to Israeli officials over the high crash rate of their unmanned aerial vehicles, the Associated Press reported.

At least four of the 50 Searcher and Heron type UAVs have crashed in the past two years, Defense Minister Pranab Mukherjee informed the Indian parliament, according to the Press Trust of India news agency.

According to PTI, Mukherjee said investigations attributed the crashes to systems failure. In one of the crashes, an Indian air force handler was reportedly killed.

Mukherjee reportedly said that state-owned Israel Aircraft Industries who manufactured the UAVs had agreed to repair them for free.

"A continuous and multifaceted effort is under way in the defense forces to enhance and upgrade safety of the UAV's," Mukherjee wrote in a letter to the parliament quoted by AP, and he added that measures to enhance the quality of training were also being pursued.

Officials at IAI were stunned by the report.

"We flatly deny this," said Ya'ir Dubester, director of IAI's Malat division, which manufactures the Searcher and Heron. "Not one of our UAVs has ever crashed in India."

The UAVs are deployed along India's border with Pakistan and in the strife-torn Himalayan region of Kashmir.

Analysts have noted that the accident-prone Indian air force has one of the highest attrition rates in the world. Last year, India ordered three Phalcon airborne early warning aircraft from IAI for $1 billion, the largest one-time arms sale in the history of the state.

India is Israel's leading arms buyer and ties between the two countries have warmed considerably this decade.

[Toga]

Don't forget that not everybody in India is happy with the Indian - Israeli relationship. 20% of Israel is Arab. 20% of India is Muslim. There are 200M Muslims residing in India. Obviously, the Hindu - Jewish cooperation is feared and the Indian - Israeli relationship will be attacked and challenged. Blaming the quality of the drones is one way to disrupt it.

[SteveK]

Don't forget that not everybody in India is happy with the Indian - Israeli relationship. 20% of Israel is Arab. 20% of India is Muslim. There are 200M Muslims residing in India. Obviously, the Hindu - Jewish cooperation is feared and the Indian - Israeli relationship will be attacked and challenged. Blaming the quality of the drones is one way to disrupt it.

So, bring teams of Israelis to India. And, bring Womble with them.
Maybe keeping a little plane flying straight would correct Womble's own Wobble.

[Womble]

So, bring teams of Israelis to India. And, bring Womble with them.

Hell yeah. Can we do it tomorrow?

[atricnorth]

hmmm, it has been a long time since i have posted here

why does this scenario remind me of the schindler factory jews producing defect military arms for the nazis?

[Womble]

why does this scenario remind me of the schindler factory jews producing defect military arms for the nazis?

Because you're on the wrong page?

[Arjun]

hmmm, it has been a long time since i have posted here

why does this scenario remind me of the schindler factory jews producing defect military arms for the nazis?

This is far fetched and misplaced analogy.

Finding the root cause of any problem with anything you buy is a normal process. It has nothing to do with nazism or anything else.

Please, don't blow it out of proportion and let the professionals from both the sides take care of this issue.

[The Indian]

The UAVs are deployed along India's border with Pakistan and in the strife-torn Himalayan region of Kashmir.

Analysts have noted that the accident-prone Indian air force has one of the highest attrition rates in the world.

That is red-herring argument. India has been using IAI drones since at least 1999. Indian military personnel are very familiar with operating these UAVs. I don't know what has changed in the last couple of years, but a good guess is that the newer UAVs are equipped with some sort of air-to-ground rocket/missile that is changing the flight characteristics of the UAV. These UAVs along with other weapon systems are put to extreme conditions flying in the Himalayan mountain range.

The IAI is working on resolving the issue free of cost. If the Heron works well in India it will work well any where else on this earth!

In 2002 an Indian UAV, made by IAI, was flying over Pakistan, where the PAF had to scramble their F-16s to shoot it down with an AIM-9 air-to-air missile. The UAV could not be shot down from the ground and required intercept.

[Fredo]

So, bring teams of Israelis to India. And, bring Womble with them.

Don't worry , IAI has already many engineers working in India on UAV for years, it's one of the most important and juicy market for IAI, so they put all the means needed to satisfy the Indians : support , technology transfer , etc...

4 drones crashes in 2 years aren't that many, if they use them often it doesn't seems to be such a high attrition rate. Americans who use many UAVs have crashed a good number, France too , it's normal when you start using a totally new system. Maturity comes on both side , operators and equipment with time. You can't always think about everything , many problems appears only with time and use in real service conditions.

[The Negotiator]

I remember one Israeli made Indian UAV was downed in Azad Kashmir by Pakistani F-16 and Aim-9 dont remember what kind it was.

[Mediocrates]

Probably a high altitude glitch. Small aircraft are very hard to control at high altitude. Take at look at all the problems the US has in Afghanistan. Most crashes are high altitude stalls.