Kadima presents party platform

[sharonbn]

Part of Israel must be conceded in order for a Jewish and democratic state to exist, Kadima's platform states; Sharon says he would consider joining forces with any party to form next government

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...176215,00.html

The nation has the historic and national right to a complete Israel, but part of the country must be conceded in order for a Jewish and democratic state to exist, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's new Kadima party platform states.

During a meeting of his new faction at the Knesset Monday, Justice Minister Tzipi Livni presented the party platform to the 14 Knesset members present at the meeting. A total of 17 MKs have joined the party.

According to the manifesto, the party would support the establishment of "an additional nation state to solve the (Palestinian) refugee problem, which would not be a terror state."

The platform also stated that the party would preserve the larger settlement blocs and a unified Jerusalem.

Kadima would also be committed to the Road Map peace plan, including dismantling the terror organizations, the collection of weapons and PA security reforms through stages devised by the plan.

The platform also includes internal issues pertaining to Israel, such as strengthening Jewish identity in society, bridging the secular and religious conflict and developing Israel's democratic characteristics.

The party's social-economic policies, including development in the Galilee and Negev and a war on poverty and crime, is also included.

[Mira]

What do you think the outcome would be if all the Arabs now living in East Jerusalem who currently receive economic and social benefits from Israel were asked whether they want to be full fledged citizens of Israel or citizens of a future Palestinian State?

What options are being explored for granting duel citizenship to these individuals under the premise that Israel retains Jerusalem?

[sharonbn]

1) East Jerusalem citizens hold Israeli identity cards and receive social benefits today (although they do not participate in the general elections.)

I have no idea if they would prefer to be Palestinian or Israeli citizens.

2) I don't believe Israel should retain soverignty over all of Jer'm. I think that the plan laid out by Clinton in Jan 2001 is a good plan - Israel is where Jews live, Palestine os where Arabs live. Let them have East Jer'm as their capital, I don't need it to maintain my soverignity,

[Mira]

I think that the plan laid out by Clinton in Jan 2001 is a good plan - Israel is where Jews live, Palestine os where Arabs live. Let them have East Jer'm as their capital, I don't need it to maintain my soverignity,

Honestly, I don't know how to practically divide Jerusalem today. It is difficult to tell where "Jewish" Jerusalem ends and "Arab" Jerusalem begins. The economies and social services are totally intertwined. Sometimes I think the only possible solutions are to either retain all of Jerusalem and form a bi-national State with the Palestinians in the West Bank, retain Jerusalem and leave the rest of the West Bank to join in some sort of confederacy with Jordan, or have some sort of bi-national status for Jerusalem that is independent of both Israel and Palestine.

[sharonbn]

Honestly, I don't know how to practically divide Jerusalem today.

Here's one suggestion: http://www.heskem.org.il/maps.asp

[Mediocrates]

Draw a line through it like Berlin. Let each provide their own city and infrastructure services.

[Mira]

Here's one suggestion: http://www.heskem.org.il/maps.asp

I'm sorry, but the map of Jerusalem doesn't help me much. I'm sure it makes perfect sense to those involved in drafting the Initiative, but it looks like the same twisted mess that I saw last week on the ground. By the way, my family and I stayed in East Jerusalem at the Novotel, which is designed to cater to observant Jews and has "Jerusalem, Israel" as the location in their brochure. Maybe those involved in promoting the Geneva Initiative should give organized tours to people visiting Israel? Anyway, the Initiative does contain some interesting ideas. Maybe some of them will be implemented at some point in time.

[AraV]

Israel should retain the Armenian Quaters under any agreement.

This is why.

1. The Armenians themselves want to stay Israeli rather then become a part of a new Palestinian State.

2. The Palestinian Record on treatment of christians is horrible.

[Mira]

Israel should retain the Armenian Quaters under any agreement.

This is why.

1. The Armenians themselves want to stay Israeli rather then become a part of a new Palestinian State.

2. The Palestinian Record on treatment of christians is horrible.

That's an important point. The Armenians and Greek Orthodox own a lot of East Jerusalem, especially in and around the Old City. What jurisdiction do they want their property to fall under? I would think that they would want to be under Israeli soverignty because they know that Israel wants the Christians to keep their Churches operating and well maintained because to the government, it's not a matter of religious supremacy, but what's good for business. Maybe the Palestinians would have the same mentality about it, but nobody knows what the future Palestinian government is going to look like and Muslims don't have a good record in that area.

[sharonbn]

Israel should retain the Armenian Quaters under any agreement.

This is why.

1. The Armenians themselves want to stay Israeli rather then become a part of a new Palestinian State.

2. The Palestinian Record on treatment of christians is horrible.

With all due respect, the desire of the Armenians is irrelevant. Whatever the borders of Israel and Palestine will be, they will be drawn based on national considerations like security and places of national interest like Jewish quarter, etc.

Israel did not cater for the desire of the Gaza settlers, so it will do in the case of others.

[Mediocrates]

According to the manifesto, the party would support the establishment of "an additional nation state to solve the (Palestinian) refugee problem, which would not be a terror state."

The platform also stated that the party would preserve the larger settlement blocs and a unified Jerusalem.

How does that jibe with this? What does unified mean?

And what does an additional nation state mean? Is that just bad English journalism or does it mean something different?

[MGB8]

The easiest and most sensible thing to do is to have Israel keep sovereignty over all of Jerusalem, but to give the Arabs/Palestine Administrative control, sort of quasi soveriegnty, in the Arab portions. You just can't split the security or services of the city up, not without scarring it. Those need to remain in Israeli control. But permits and other administrative functions can be given to an Arab board with ties to a "Palestine," and they should be allowed to vote in Palestinian elections. However, it would create an issue with "who's citizens are they..." the easiest thing would be to maintain the status quo - Palestinian citizens, with Jerusalem residence. Essentially foreign nationals.

[sharonbn]

Unified means that East Jer'm will remain in Israel control.
An additional nation state means independant Palestine.

[Mediocrates]

Unified means that East Jer'm will remain in Israel control.
An additional nation state means independant Palestine.

(thanks - bad journalism or translation I guess)

So that flies in the face of what we're saying here. Kadima wants to land grab EJ. Well they're being honest about it. What do you think they would offer in exchange?

[Mediocrates]

http://www.infoisrael.net/cgi-local/...a/ix/241120052

EU Report Due to Criticize Israel’s Jerusalem Policy

By Amihai Zippor

(IHC News, 24 November 2005) A report due out by the European Union is expected to blast Israeli activities in Jerusalem and may call on the EU to reassess it’s Jerusalem policy.

The report cites Israel as creating facts on the ground that will make it extremely difficult to reach a final agreement with the Palestinians.

It labeled Israeli initiatives “in and around east Jerusalem, including construction of the separation barrier, settlement building and house demolitions,” as constituting “grave concern.”

Though a spokeswoman for EU foreign policy said these reports are normal and are compiled by the EU consul generals in Jerusalem, an Israeli official familiar with the report was not impressed.

“It is impossible to rely on the Europeans,” the official claimed.

“We let them in Rafah through the front door and the first thing they do is slam us on Jerusalem,” he said referring to the arrangement with the Palestinians that EU officials will monitor the border crossing between Egypt and Gaza for weapons smuggling and terrorists in place of Israel.

Though Israel has generally been cool to allowing the Europeans into negotiations with the Palestinians, Defense Minister, Shaul Mofaz said the compromise in Gaza was struck only because it balanced the needs of both sides, most importantly, Israel’s security.

Meanwhile, the Palestinians continue to declare Jerusalem will be the capital of their future state.

However, most politicians in Israel including new Labor Chairman, Amir Peretz say Jerusalem is non-negotiable and there will be no compromise on the city as it is the eternal capital of the Jewish people.

From 1948 till 1967, Jordan occupied the eastern section of Jerusalem including the Temple Mount, Judaism’s holiest site where the First and Second Temples once stood more than 2000 years ago.

Israel united the city after its victory in the 1967 Six Day War but non-Muslims have had limited access to the Temple Mount, which is also considered Islam’s third holiest site next to Mecca and Medina in Saudi Arabia.