Promoting true democracy in the Arab/Muslim world

[Vic]

A difficult issue, but one that needs to be adressed.

When I read statements like this

"We are very familiar with the harsh complaints against the Arab press and its professional level," a Jordanian journalist told Ha'aretz. "Some of them are correct and in order. But the complainers, especially official bodies, would do better to first direct the complaints toward themselves. When I can't go to Israel to cover the intifada from the Israeli side, or to interview Israeli politicians, because I am likely to be kicked out of the Jordanian Press Association, how do they expect me to do professional work? When I am not allowed to publish information about Jordan that I have received from my sources, until I have received permission from the government spokesman, how can they complain to me that I am not fulfilling my professional obligation? Someone has to decide whether my job is to be a journalist or to be a spokesman. I read the Israeli press on the Internet and am filled with envy. I could do exactly the same work here in Jordan, if I didn't have an information minister and press laws on top of my head."

source http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pa...ID=0&listSrc=Y

I keep asking what (if anything) is being undertaken to support the positive tendencies among Israel's neighbors. For a historical comparison, the Western support of the dissident movents in the former Soviet bloc states has played no small role in bringing down the dictatorships even if this took decades. From what I know however, similar efforts directed at the Arab/Muslim countries are few and far between. I can find little explanation for this fact, even if I take the inadequate position of the West towards Israel in account. Why not push such issues not only on governmental level but also through the NGO's and the media?

[cerulean]

Originally posted by Vic
A difficult issue, but one that needs to be adressed.

When I read statements like thisI keep asking what (if anything) is being undertaken to support the positive tendencies among Israel's neighbors. For a historical comparison, the Western support of the dissident movents in the former Soviet bloc states has played no small role in bringing down the dictatorships even if this took decades. From what I know however, similar efforts directed at the Arab/Muslim countries are few and far between. I can find little explanation for this fact, even if I take the inadequate position of the West towards Israel in account. Why not push such issues not only on governmental level but also through the NGO's and the media?

It sounds like a perfect task for Europeans given the current state of the world. Americans would likely be distrusted, given the current situation. Plus, the Saudis are the Bush family's best friends, and the Saudi regime is about the most repressive of any of the Arab states.

For Israelis to agitate for human rights and press freedom in Arab countries would be even more unlikely.

I posted a long time ago that there should be some linkage of human rights progress with aid money in Arab countries, but I don't suppose that will happen. Arab countries would likely view this as paternalistic, but perhaps it would be effective.

From time to time I do read about organizations pressing for equal rights (or at least no overt persecution) of lesbians and gay men in Arab countries. That's one human rights issue, for sure, but there are countless others.

What type of organizations (NGO or otherwise) do you envision that would put pressure on Arab governments to allow more freedoms generally?

(Edit) One other obvious group to pressure Arab governments to reform would be Arab immigrants to Western countries. Perhaps Arab immigrants are active in this arena, but I don't really know.

[Mediocrates]

A trojan horse? Allow the Arab press to even further coopt the west? Yet more outlets with whiteredblack flags to proclaim the zionazi genocide?

I wonder how the Syrians or the Iranians would countenance their own journalists with assistance from the west publishing unpleasant truths about them. I imagine those countries trust their own journalists about as far as it is to push them out of a helicopter.

At any rate, I wonder though what the best approach would be? To pressure the Arab nations to open up their control on the media, or even allow private ownership? To allow more western and western influenced media into their country? Those other contacts would have to be indigenous and fluent in the native languages and could not come from or represent a known resistance, freedom, separatist organization. The obligatory "yellow running dog lackey of the white devil great satan cia mossad zionist nazi" claims would have to be managed. Simultaneously the Western media would have to be kept at arms' length both from right and from the left.

My vote is the Christian Science Monitor as a start - CMS could support and sponsor indigenous media personnel as a disinterested factual source of truthful material. Maybe the Arab world would 'go all street' and the sound of the word Christian so perhaps they could create another suborganization with a more innocuous name (I have no Arabic so someone else can suggest something).

[cerulean]

How much access does the average Arab country have to Western media? What about something analogous to "Voice of America" broadcasts?

[Mediocrates]

VoA, Radio Marti? I think it will take more than that. I think that some clever people can coopt their insatiable thirst for western media, culture, entertainment.

One of the largest exports of the US if not the largest is our culture -our movies, TV, radio, advertising, pop culture, food. They may hate our country, our Gods, our unburkahed women, our strip malls but they all wear GAP and Nike and watch CNN and MTV and Disney movies and action flicks and listen to rap, hip hop R+B. This should be exploited to involve subtle pro Western ideas and ideals. I'm not talking about Brittany Spears in a redwhiteblue bikini but something more subtle than that. Start highlighting HOW GOOD IT COULD BE FOR THEM if they come over to our side. Connect the dots. Most of the world already wants what we have - they just don't want to become us wanting it.

Start with all kinds of arab spun media where the content is basically western - look at ajeeb they do a pretty good job of this in look and feel. Just twist the content. Put up more world news with a focus on Arab countries and people using Arab people to tell the story - but make sure the story is a western story. Put women on the news, put on people who are successful in the west and can speak about banking, (western) national events, local cutural events, entertainment. Let's face it, if you eliminate the 3 or 4 'important stories from the news channels what's left is 95% fluff. There is no reason we can't put an arab face on that.

There is no reason why you can't have segments about how horrible some of those countries are - you know the kind of thing where Iraqis talk about what an a-hole Saddam is how he's killing his own people and about how there's this Iraq community over here in El Segundo (or wherever) that's sending food and money to people back 'home'. Or perhaps some material on Saudi women in the US or wherever being fully integrated into western norms where they can work, drive, go to college, wear short sleeves, not get honor slaughtered, that kind of thing.

Advertise family services agencies that help families from wherever-istan get settled in Canada or Rome or Christchurch, NZ showing them how much help is available for people who want to enjoy and contribute to our way of life.

And then beam it over there 24-7. But do it nicely, seduce don't threaten. Overtime you will see people clamoring for that lifestyle, those rights, those freedoms, that kind of egalitarian society, over there. Of course they will never become us but it is enough that they don't want to remain them.

[L@mplighterM]

You’re beginning to scare me Mediocrates.

Trying to westernize Islamic Fundamentalists.

Arafat just finished ripping off 5 mil from a Palestinian aid fund.

All their leaders live high on the hog and throw a few crumbs to the lower caste.

What about the Koran advocating the destruction off Jews/Infidels? That isn't going to go away!

[Mediocrates]

No it won't neither will my born again neighbor think that Jews don't have horns or murdered Jesus either.

What I want is to start revolutions from the inside. The more middle class (egad!! could it be a rationale for the bourgeoisie??) that cultures become the more they start to look and think and act like one another. I don't for moment think that hatred can be wiped out with DVD players but I'd rather have them screaming at their own rulers demanding something resembling middle class desires and virtues than I would have them screaming at me that it's my fault they have 12 to a room and no plumbing and the one TV channel is Ba'ath party news of the day.

It's not a panacea but....somebody smarter than me, maybe it was Tallyrand said "Every country is 3 meals from its next revolution".

[cerulean]

Originally posted by Mediocrates

What I want is to start revolutions from the inside. The more middle class (egad!! could it be a rationale for the bourgeoisie??) that cultures become the more they start to look and think and act like one another.

This has been the guiding principle for decades now, but are you sure this principle applies in Islamic societies? In general, Arab countries have significantly less freedom and egalitarianism than they did 35 years ago.

Although there have been conflicting reports, it would seem that many suicide attackers are indeed middle-class.

From
http://www.thenewrepublic.com/doc.mh...krueger062402:

For this reason, the stereotype of suicide bombers being drawn from the ranks of those who are so impoverished that they have nothing to live for may be wildly incorrect. This interpretation is also consistent with another of Hassan's observations about suicide bombers: "None of them were uneducated, desperately poor, simple-minded, or depressed. Many were middle class and, unless they were fugitives, held paying jobs. More than half of them were refugees from what is now Israel. Two were the sons of millionaires."

When I was going to school, no Muslim girls wore hijab to school, although I lived in an area where there was a significant influx of wealthy Muslim immigrants. In my children's schools, this is no longer true. Maybe this is a victory for increased religious comfort, but I don't think so. I would find it very hard to believe that my fellow students had any desire to wear hijab. (Just another anecdote, but this fits with the general concept that fundamentalism is increasing regardless of middle-class status.)

[cerulean]

Among all the other so-called reasons, one reason Arab governments hate Israel is precisely because Israel provides an example of a state in which egalitarianism (maybe not perfect, but definitely striving towards it), initiative, secularism, and free religious practice all flourish.

[Mediocrates]

Maybe you're right I'll have to think on it - at any rate there is zero chance of effecting change in their governments directly w/o the use of force which has already been discussed.

[cerulean]

Here's an article on MEMRI (often quoted on this forum), which translates all those Arabic articles.

http://www.washtimes.com/culture/20020620-11862264.htm

Note that they do have a Reform in the Arab World project:

http://www.memri.org/reform.html

[elke]

Democracy in the Arab world would be great! Historically, Democracies tend to be more concerned with economic issues and not get overly excited by "causes".

However, the whole concept of Democracy pre-supposes the ability of an average Joe Voter to be able to tell right from wrong without much outside interference. In Ancient Greece, where this form of government was born, only certain people had the rights. In modern Western countries, there was a gradual progression to fully Democratic government that spanned about 800 years, the French Revolution notwithstanding.

I am not saying that it would take 800 years for the Muslim world to get to that point, but I don't know that a sudden change is in the offing, and moreover if it does happen that it would stick. The masses don't seem to be prepared to fend for themselves yet, on individual level.

[Vic]

Sharansky: Palestinian democracy is possible
By HERB KEINON

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...=1023716558256

"There are those who say that democracy is foreign to Islam," Sharansky said yesterday. "But I can bring you quotes from American experts who said Japan would never be democratic, because it is a different world, that Russia would never be democratic, that Spain would never be democratic, that Latin America would never be democratic."

...

Of all the Arabs, Sharansky said, the Palestinians are the closest to democracy. The problem is that until now the West has chosen to prop up a dictator Arafat.

When reminded that the polls show the Palestinians are overwhelmingly still supportive of Arafat, Sharansky asked, "What does it mean that the Palestinians love only Arafat, the Russians when asked loved only Stalin. Did they have a choice. Has anybody made sure that the Palestinians have a choice?"

Sharansky said that Israel needs to free itself of the illusion that the Palestinians chose Arafat's dictatorship. The West chose that, he said, by not providing another option.

[elke]

With all due respect to Scharansky - as he indeed deserves, I am not sure that he is correct. How is it West's responsibility to provide the Palestinians with alternative leadership? More to the point, how can it be done, realistically? Some sort of embryonic opposition from within must be present, before the West can act on internal affairs of a group of people. The people must demonstrate that they are deeply interested in such solution.

There was an article in one of the Russian magazines a few months ago, where an Arabist (as in "a person studying the Arab culture," not the US State Department ) made an interesting point. She said that there is a major difference in the context in which the Arabs view themselves vs. the West. The way she put it was that the Western culture is a culture of "conscience", while Arab culture is a culture of "shame". In other words, if we do something wrong, we KNOW it's wrong within ourselves, regardless of who knows about it or what they think. The Arabs view themselves as part of their community, and any "wrongdoing" is judged by the reaction of that community.

If she is correct in her assessment, this is something important to contemplate viz. possibility of real Democracy in Arab society. Divergent opinions are essential for Democracy, but if the Arab society is indeed a "society of shame", they would be frowned upon, at the very least. What we see in the Arab world today, IMHO, confirms what this lady had to say.

[cerulean]

Originally posted by elke
The way she put it was that the Western culture is a culture of "conscience", while Arab culture is a culture of "shame". In other words, if we do something wrong, we KNOW it's wrong within ourselves, regardless of who knows about it or what they think.

It's too bad Freud did not get a chance to apply his theories of the id and superego to an Arab clientele

The Arabs view themselves as part of their community, and any "wrongdoing" is judged by the reaction of that community.

I did mention "borderline personality disorder" on another thread, and this almost sounds like the definition of the term, as I understand it. The borderline has little self-concept, but only sees herself when reflected in others.

You can see the type of difference described in what is perhaps an overworked example by now. To oversimplify: Traditional Muslim culture requires women to cover themselves to prevent men from sinning (in thought or otherwise). Current Western thinking is that it is the man's responsibility to control his thoughts and actions regardless of what women do. (But Western thinking was somewhat different even a few decades ago, so change is possible!)

I think Japan is thought to have a shame-based culture also (obviously much different than Arabs), but democracy seems to be working there. So perhaps there is a way to adapt?