Home | That's really nonsense. Latin America is quite religious but nevertheless tolerant as well towards minorities. As in Europe the days of inquisition are long over and protestants sects are becoming popular, in some countries like Cuba official religion is in decline while vodoo (santeria) religion very popular even among whites.Originally Posted by KettleWhistle
Yey, dude! Try going to the Southern Mexico, particularly some small town there, and tell them that you're a Jew. Do let us know how that goes.
I've done it in Guatemala, which is more religious than Mexico, since they were surprised I didn't pray before dinner, somehow it was more convenient to say jewish instead of atheist. There are very little jews in Guatemala and the whole of Latin America except Mexico and Argentina.
But that decline does'nt necessarily mean its anti semitic either. As you say its down to the severe instability in the country. Plus if some of Jews, or others who have left there have links with /or are American, they may have found it wiser to leave given the goverments anti american stance.
Well Must Dash, I've Got a Man Coming For My Daily Routine Ethnic Cleansing...
Most of Jews of South America got there from fleeing the Inquisition. They came from Spain and then 6 years later, from Portugal. Interestingly, many Jews fled to the new world to get away from the Inquisition only to be captured and sent back to Spain and Portugal as early as 1515. Even more curious is that after that, Jews were often exiled back to South America anyway. In either case, auto da fes were fairly prevelant in Lima, Buenos Aires, Cartagena, Mexico City. It wasn't until the tolerant Dutch took over regions in South America around 1640; the eastern edge of Brazil and the Caribbean that Jews were protected. One of the most significant autos in the New World was in Mexico City; 1649 where hundreds of anousim or 'New Christians' were burned at the stake. At any rate hundreds of years later, there are few Jews in South America as a result of hundreds of years of Catholic oppression. The Jewish population of Argentina is of more recent arrival - after the middle of the 19th Century from Jews fleeing the next wave of European antisemitism. Of course Peron was a fascist and Nazi sympathizer and rabid Catholic so he halted Jewish immigration to Argentina while at the same time, opening relations with Israel to offer Argentine Jews a polite avenue of expulsion.
BTW one out of nine people murdered by the junta in the 70's and 80's were Jews (has anyone read Jacobo Timmerman?) which is curious given that Jews are only 250,000 souls out of 40,000,000 (most Argentines are Azkenazic not Sephardic)
And in 1992-4 more than 110 Jews were killed in 2 bombings engineered by middle eastern terrorists with at least tacit support of the government.
Ossian writes:
[.. But that decline does'nt necessarily mean its anti semitic either. As you say its down to the severe instability in the country. Plus if some of Jews, or others who have left there have links with /or are American, they may have found it wiser to leave given the goverments anti american stance...]
Whether "severe instability" is the result of antisemitism or antisemitism is the result of "severe instability" is up to you to interpret isn't it (and to those who have left Venezuela).
Incidences referenced by the article include:Of course, mincing words as EUropeans have done for centuries and saying "move along now, there's no anti-semitism here" has to be a favorite past time of EUtopians (given their history).Several with masked faces drew graffiti on the walls and door against Israel, against the Jews (for example, the words “Cursed Jews,”
Chavez remarks about the descendants of the killers of Christ controlling the world, which in Catholic countries has always referred to precisely the Jews, no matter what our forum revisionists are trying to pretend (or interpret).
1. I may be was'nt so clear in what i meant to say. Which was, that the 5,000 Jews who have left may be put in a wider context of a wider movement of peoples away from chavez's regime and not have anything to do with anti semitism.
2. Well i can't speak for millions and millions of other EUtopians, but maybe its rather that i take anti semitism a little more seriously than you and don't attempt to degrade its meaning by accusing people, of whom i disagree with politically or whom threaten my business interests of anti semitism?
3. I have had difficulty in finding a translation without meaning-altering added punctuation marks and one which places it in a contemporary south American cultural context...If he is as you say a committed catholic he would observe the notice issued by the vatican in the 60's which stated that the Jews are not responsible for the death of christ. As i read it, it seemed he was talking about America being the New Roman Empire? Over to you...
Zer Ar Nazis in Paraguay!
My wife's family has members in Argentina who left for that country back in the early 20s from Bessarabia - now Moldova.
As far as Takeo's presumption of socialism I would not warry. Compared to me, kettle, and other russians on this forum he never lived in "real" socialism so his opinion on the matter is just that.
Hugo, will dig his country into oblivion sometime very soon. Oil has this weird tendency of making things worse - not better.
Mil - stands for the countless MILlions of reasons not to work.
" 3. "
No where on this thread have I said, implied, intimated, or even hinted that Chavez was/is a "committed catholic".
The BBC:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4615776.stmCardinal Rosalio Castillo Lara, the most senior Catholic clergyman in Venezuela, told thousands of worshippers at a pilgrimage in honour of the Virgin Mary that the country (Venezuela) had "lost its democratic course and presents the semblance of a dictatorship"
Posted by Takeo:
Actually American "Miami" Cubans, I know a lot of them too, are mostly descendants of the former mostly white elite, at least the ones who live in the US for decades.
Not really.
The radicals are terrorising their own community with terrorism and other pressure,
Sasha - "Scarface" is just fiction. Al Pacino is Italian and Steven Bayer is Jewish. But please inform us, Americans, of this particular terrorist groups and what they have done to the community of Cubans living here in the US.
they are responsible for some bombblasts in tourism resorts in Cuba. They even influence the judicial system.
they influence Cuban judicial system? Castro would be suprised.
not really, living conditions are worse than in the USSR. (but less corruption, racism and bias however)
How you know? Castro releases any statistics on the matter?
Quote:
You would be suprised but the main supporters of Cuban embargo, or rather Castro embargo, are the large and very prominent American-Cuban community.
Not at all, but why do they have so much power?
1. There are a lot of them in Florida and all over the US. In fact so large that their voting power is considered to be a significant political force.
2. Castro made many Cuban people very unhappy
Not exactly, some Miami Cubans want to end the embargo, and especially the last measure wich suspended the money-transfer to Cuba, enraged many American Cubans.
99% of Cubans want Castra to die already. And while Castro is still in power they want to embargo his ugly b**tte.
Not if for example Dean gets elected.
Sasha, you are really lost. Neither Dean or Kerry or Clinton or even the outmost liberal would ever lift embargo on Cuba. Not while Castro is power. In fact our American liberals have absolutely nothing in common with your dictatorial friend Fidel. I don't know what you, as a liberal, find so fascinating about dictators.
Anyway, the embargo was almost strangling Cuban economy in the 90's, severely restricting the living conditions, but now things are getting better, thanks to more Latin American, European and Chinese investments as well as growing tourism incomes.
After Castro's death I see lifting of the US embargo and Cuba's economy getting improved. As of right now all that Chinese investment is pennies compared to what American investment and US dollars can do in Cuba - but after Castro's death, of course.
Quote:
Sure - well one day Hugo might decide to pull a Gazprom on Castro. I heard it is pretty cold in Kiev these days.
Ukrain became a political ennemy of Russia and they have to endure the consequences, actually if Russia would decide to embargo Ukrain and Georgia the rose and orange revolution would soon loose their colours (they already did) and become black, the black of power cuts...
First of all Orange and Rose revolutions were conducted by very liberal individuals of your posture. And secondly I did not know you are a Russian nationalist. Putin would definetly find people like you very amuzing.
Imagine that - turn off heating gas to an ENTIRE COUNTRY!!!!! I don't know how you percieve it but I find it pretty stupid. In Russian the word is "razborki."
I know, but not worse than most neighbouring countries. Also Cubans are very lasy, the African blood is very present, it will never be a devellopped country.
????????????????????
Mil - stands for the countless MILlions of reasons not to work.
No, I think you are the board's "devil's advocate for anti-semitism". If you hear the word, you generally come running with some explanation how it's not anti-semitism, but a misunderstanding. So far, I haven't seen you concede that anything is anti-semitic. I don't know your agenda here, but whatever it is, it's quite disengenuous. We have real anti-semites on this board denying they are anti-semites. That's plenty for now, what we don't need is someone who believes they are objective to play as a referee amongst us, thanks. I can assure you that there are people here who grew up living it, experienced it in the past, and quite possily live with it today. To tell them what they are dealing with is some misunderstanding is quite frankly, offensive.
German is a native language in much of Argentina.
I apologize if you found what i said offensive. To be honest it was not my intention to tell a Jew how he/she should feel over alleged anti semitic comments. However, as i understood it, (i apologize if i'm wrong) Illuminatus is not Jewish. I am suspicious of some of his politics whereby he seems to assume a 'mass international conspiracy' over everything he obviously does not agree with from a U.S.A NeoCon perspective. He does'nt like Europe, for some reason, so he delights in rubbishing Europe and claiming we are all rabid, ethnic cleansing antisemites. The same with South America. Its been obvious for a long time than America has a real problem with left wing governments, that is why i am suspicious over the NeoCon claim that Chavez has now sprouted horns and jackboots.
As for my purspose on this board; to promote peace, understanding and coexistence and try to provide a Brit/Euro perspective on some of the very interesting issues raised. I don't have a an agenda other than that. (i also like the fact that people here don't try to 'cyber' you.)
Its not to excuse anti semitism. I do think that 'a devil's advocate' is sometime a healthy thing to have; rather than a blanket acceptance of what we are told, surely its good to look into things into more depth to try to understand things for what they really are, especially if one is looking into world wide anti-semitism for example and understand how it is to be defeated.
Last edited by Ossian; 01-21-2006 at 08:50 AM.
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