Land for Peace has failed. Its time to give Peace or Land a try.

[SteveMetch]

Proposal

Step 1: Divide the West Bank and Gaza into approx. 1,000 logical land tracts.

Step 2: Announce to the world that every Israel citizen killed from this point forward will result in the annexation of 1 land tract in the order outlined by a published map.

Step 3: After a terrorist attack has killed X number of citizens the appropriate set of land tracts will be annexed and all Non-Israel citizens will be forcibly removed from the land tract.


Step 4: Any structures deemed unnecessary or that represent a security risk will be removed.


The logical order of land tracts:

Land tracts around the green line that improve security

Land tracts which help connect settlements to what is currently Israel

Land tracts that contain no Arab populations (settlements, open land etc)

Land tracts that contain shanty town Arab populations

Land tracts that do not include infrastructure (power plants etc)

Land tracts that does include infrastructure

Land tracts that contain more permanent Arab populations

All remaining land

Currently there is no established non-ambiguous price tag on violence; as such Israel lives have no value to the Arabs. Placing a definite value on each murder will bring some measure of meaning to the death of so many people as well as establish an ultimate end to the death toll.

Land for Peace has failed. Its time to give Peace or Land a try.

[Mediocrates]

Instead of "Plant a Tree in Israel" We could have "Sponsor a Tank in YESHA". I'm only halfway kidding - everybody gets a square on a map like an adopt a highway program.

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by SteveMetch
Land for Peace has failed. Its time to give Peace or Land a try.

Well said.

The Palestinians need to either live as civilized neighbors, or leave and take their massacres and Jihad with them.

[hagg323]

I do believe that the solution and our messages must be balanced with full respect to these poor humans (hmm… it’s so hard, especially after tonight’s attack, damn it!) the same way that we demand respect to ourselves from them. A punishing system will not do it and will not deliver a long-lasting solution, which is what we should be looking for. Peace, Shpeace, a long-lasting solution should be our focus. Because we cannot afford looking at short-term solutions that only generate more frustrations even if not leading to more violence. This is what they think that they are doing: pushing us in the short-term to give up something, which we will never ever give up. They are wrong. Wrong in thinking, wrong in their tactics. Please let’s not follow this path too. We must look beyond the horizon of the present violence. The violence must be put off, forcefully and without any compromise, with a way more determinism than what our government has demonstrated up till now. There’s no other way. Terror has no logic to reason with and you cannot surrender to it. But they are people like you and me that you’re taking about, Stephen, and must be treated with the same ways that you want to be treated yourself, and your family, and your loved ones. We need to look at solutions that will lead to quiet (peace would be nice to have, not a must so soon) and economic prosperity to the region, one that will increase the standard of living and provide hope and unlimited opportunities to all newborns, Arabs and Jews alike. Suddenly, it seems like a long dream. It’s amazing how quickly the hope can return once the violence has ended. Talking about transfer from a standpoint of looking after everyone’s interests, is one thing, which I support because I simply cannot see any other logical solution and not because I choose it gladly. Talking about limiting other people and compressing them further inside this horrible pressure cooker simply won’t work. Not for the short term. Not for the long term. Not for me. Not for them. Not even for you.

[takeo]

massive etnic cleansing of the occupied territories will change sporadic terrorism into a full war against a large colaition and worldwide embargo, land for peace (or better said implementation of the un-resolutions for peace) is the only way to go, it has not failed yet, because it has not been implemented yet.

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by hagg323
Talking about transfer from a standpoint of looking after everyone’s interests, is one thing, which I support because I simply cannot see any other logical solution and not because I choose it gladly.

Right, transfer of the Palestinians into an independent zone should absolutely not be seen as a punishment, but as a last-resort solution to save lives and allow the Palestinians to realize their national aspirations in a way in which they cannot carry on with their massacres of Israelis.

There is no need at all to "compress people into a pressure cooker." Jordan has vast expanses of vacant land, as does the Arabian desert, which is the Palestinians' historical homeland anyway. There, the Palestinians can live like kings, reunited with their brothers in freedom.

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by takeo
massive etnic cleansing of the occupied territories will change sporadic terrorism into a full war against a large colaition and worldwide embargo...

In case you haven't noticed from the daily massacres of Israelis, the Arabs have already launched a full-scale war of genocide against Israel.

The Palestinian war against Israel is supported by a coalition of Iran, Syria, Lebanon and alQaeda troops.

land for peace (or better said implementation of the un-resolutions for peace) is the only way to go, it has not failed yet, because it has not been implemented yet.

The UN resolutions have been implemented by Israel, but can never be completed due to the Palestinian war of terrorism against Israel.

We need to respect the Palestians' right to choose their own destiny and listen carefully to them. They have rejected all UN resolutions and have chosen to go to war instead. Therefore, we must proceed from this point of reality with new strategies to end the violence.

[wallace2132]

visit http://www.geocities.com/munichsepte...2/default.html

[alexbmn]

what really puts me into a foul mood that when Sharon finally decides to implement a new strategy that has a chance of being successfull immeditely there's discord and disapproval from others.Ben Eliezer is not happy and Mofaz(who proposed the same identical idea a couple of weeks ago is suddenly not happy as well.With such democratic atmosphere nothing will be done.

[takeo]

"They have rejected all UN resolutions and have chosen to go to war instead. "

The Palestinian leadership, as well as all political groups except Hamas and Jihad have accepted all un-resolutions, even the ones recognising israel.

Israel has not accepted:

UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 (1974)

"the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return";

UN General Assembly Resolution 52/62 (1997):
"reaffirms that the Palestine Arab refugees are entitled to their property and to the income derived therefrom, in conformity with the principles of justice and equity."

UN General Assembly Resolution 194 (1948) of 12 December 1948:

"refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for the loss or damage to property..."

UNSC 242 specifies in paragraph 3 "...all member states in their acceptance of the charter of the United Nations have undertaken a commitment to act in accordance with Article 2 of the Charter," which established the principles upon which members are required to act in comformance of the purposes of the organisation, specified in Article 1. Among the principles of Article 2 is "members must fulfill their Charter obligations in good faith."
UNSC 242 calls for the "withdrawal of Israel's armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict."

And what about the numerous un-resolutions to condamn israeli settlements...

http://www.peacenow.org.il/English.a...&CategoryID=45




"United Nations Security Council Resolution 242
22 November 1967

The Security Council,

Expressing, its continuing concern with the grave situation in the Middle East,

Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in which every State in the area can live in security,

Emphasizing further that all Member states in their acceptance of the Charter of the United Nations have undertaken a commitment to act in accordance with Article 2 of the Charter,

1. Affirms that the fulfillment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:


(i) Withdrawal of Israeli forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict,
(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;


2. Affirms further the necessity


(a) For guaranteeing freedom of navigation through international waterways in the area;
(b) For achieving a just settlement of the refugee problem;

(c) For guaranteeing the territorial inviolability and political independence of every State in the area through measures including the establishment of demilitarized zones;


3. Requests the Secretary-General to designate a Special Representative to proceed to the Middle East to establish and maintain contacts with the States concerned in order to promote agreement and assist efforts to achieve a peaceful and accepted settlement in accordance with the provisions and principles in this resolution;

4. Requests the Secretary-General to report to the Security Council on the progress of the efforts of the Special Representative as soon as possible."

Res 101 (Nov 24, 53): Expressed 'strongest censure' of Israel for the first time because of its raid on Qibya.
Res 106 (Mar 29, 55): Condemned Israel for Ghazzah raid.
Res 111 (Jan 19, 56): Condemned Israel for raid on Syria that killed 56 people.
Res 127 (Jan 22, 58): Recommended Israel to suspend its no-man's zone in Jerusalem.
Res 162 (Apr 11, 61): Urged Israel to comply with UN decisions.
Res 171 (Apr 9, 62): Determined 'flagrant violation' by Israel in its attack on Syria.
Res 228 (Nov 25, 66): Censured Israel for its attack on Samu in Jordan.
Res 237 (June 14, 67): Urged Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees.
Res 248 (Mar 24, 68): Condemned Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan.
Res 250 (Apr 27, 68): Called on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem.
Res 251 (May 2, 68): Deeply deplored Israel's military parade in Jerusalem and declared invalid Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as its capital.
Res 256 (Aug 16, 68): Condemned Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation'.
Res 259 (Sep 27, 68): Deplored Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation.
Res 262 (Dec 31, 68): Condemned Israel's attack on Beirut airport destroying the entire fleet of Middle East Airlines.
Res 265 (Apr 1, 69): Condemned Israel for air attacks on Salt in Jordan.
Res 267 (July 3, 69): Censured Israel for administrative acts to change status of Jerusalem.
Res 270 (Aug. 26, 69): Condemned Israel for air attack on villages in southern Lebanon.
Res 271 (Sep 15, 69): Condemned Israel's failure to comply with UN resolutions on Jerusalem.
Res 279 (May 12, 70): Demanded withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon.
Res 280 (May 19, 70): Condemned Israeli attacks against Lebanon.
Res 285 (Sep 5, 70): Demanded immediate Israeli troop withdrawal from Lebanon.
Res 298 (Sep 25, 71): Deplored Israel's change of status of Jerusalem.
Res 313 (Aug 8, 72): Demanded Israel stop attacks against Lebanon.
Res 316 (June 26, 72): Condemned Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon.
Res 317 (July 21, 72): Deplored Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted from Lebanon.
Res 332 (Apr 21, 73): Condemned Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon.
Res 337 (Aug 15, 73): Condemned Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty.
Res 347 (Apr 24, 74): Condemned Israeli attacks on Lebanon.
Res 425 (Mar 19, 78): Called on Israel to withdraw its forces unconditionally from Lebanon.
Res 427 (May 3, 78): Called on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon.
Res 444 (Jan 19, 79): Deplored Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peace forces.
Res 446 (Mar 22, 79): Determined Israeli settlements as a 'serious obstruction' to peace, and called on Israel to abide by the Geneva Conventions.
Res 450 (June 14, 79): Called on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon.
Res 452 (July 20, 79): Called on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories.
Res 465 (Mar 1, 80): Deplored Israel's settlements and asked all member States not to assist Israel's settlement programme.
Res 467 (Apr 24, 80): Condemned Israel's military intervention in Lebanon.
Res 468 (May 8, 80): Called on Israel to rescind illegal expulsion of two Palestinian Mayors and a Judge, and to facilitate their return.
Res 469 (May 20, 80): Strongly deplored Israel's failure to observe the Council's order not to deport Palestinians.
Res 471 (June 5, 80): Expressed deep concern at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
Res 476 (June 30, 80): Reiterated that Israel's claims to Jerusalem are 'null and void'.
Res 478 (Aug 20, 80): 'Censured in the strongest terms' Israel for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'basic law'.
Res 484 (Dec 19, 80): Declared it imperative Israel re-admit two Palestinian mayors.
Res 487 (June 19, 81): Strongly condemns Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility.
Res 497 (Dec 17, 81): Decided Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demanded that Israel rescind its decision forthwith.
Res 498 (Dec 18, 81): Called on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon.
Res 501 (Feb 25, 82): Called on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops.
Res 508 (June 6, 82): Demanded Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and un-conditionally from Lebanon.
Res 515 (July 29, 82): Demanded Israel lift its seige of Beirut and allow in food.
Res 517 (Aug 4, 82): Censured Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demanded Isreal withdraw its forces from Lebanon.
Res 518 (Aug 12, 82): Demanded Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon.
Res 520 (Sep 17, 82): Condemned Israel's attack into West Beirut.
Res 573 (Oct 4, 85): Condemned Israel vigorously for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO Headquarters.
Res 587 (Sep 23, 86): Took note of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urged all parties to withdraw.
Res 592 (Dec 8, 86): Strongly deplored the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops.
Res 605 (Dec 22, 87): Strongly deplored Israel's policies and practices denying human rights of Palestinians.
Res 607 (Jan 5, 88): Called on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requested it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.
Res 608 (Jan 14, 88): Deeply regreted that Israel had defied the UN and deported Palestinian civilians.
Res 636 (July 6, 89): Deeply regreted the Israeli deportation of Palestinians.
Res 641 (Aug 30, 89): Deplored Israel's continuous deportation of Palestinians.
Res 672 (Oct 12, 90): Condemned Israel for violence against Palestinians at Jerusalem's Haram Al-Sharif.
Res 673 (Oct 24, 90): Deplored Israel's refusal to cooperate with the UN.
Res 681 (Dec 20, 90): Deplored Israel's resumption of deportation of Palestinians.
Res 694 (May 24, 91): Deplored Israel's deportation of Palestinians and called on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.
Res 726 (Jan 1, 92): 'Strongly condemned' Israel's decision to resume deportation of Palestinians from 'Palestinian territories... including Jerusalem.'
Res 799 (Dec 19, 92): Deplored Israel's mass deportation of some 400 Palestinians and called for thir immediate return.

[elke]

Next time, I'll just save this and copy/paste the response:

WHERE ARE THE RESOLUTIONS CONDEMNING THE ARAB VIOLENCE?

WHERE ARE THE RESOLUTIONS CONDEMNING SYRIAN OCCUPATION OF LEBANON?

AND WHILE WE ARE AT IT, WHERE IS THE ARAB ACCEPTANCE OF THESE SAME RESOLUTIONS, WHICH ALSO CALL ON THEM TO DO THINGS.

[takeo]

Elke, there is no occupation of Libanon, as there is no uS-occupation of SA.
The PA and many Arab states accept all UN-resolutions, including the one recognising Israel and the ones condamning violence against civilians.

[elke]

As promised:

WHERE ARE THE RESOLUTIONS CONDEMNING THE ARAB VIOLENCE?

WHERE ARE THE RESOLUTIONS CONDEMNING SYRIAN OCCUPATION OF LEBANON?

AND WHILE WE ARE AT IT, WHERE IS THE ARAB ACCEPTANCE OF THESE SAME RESOLUTIONS, WHICH ALSO CALL ON THEM TO DO THINGS.

Ask the Lebanese, not the government prostitutes, but the Joe on the street whether there is - or isn't - occupation by Syria.

[takeo]

"WHERE ARE THE RESOLUTIONS CONDEMNING THE ARAB VIOLENCE? "

just one, there are many more: ( i posted a whole list in a discussion with newsguy once on this forum)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/wor...00/1916236.stm

Did you talk to joe on the street?
there doesn't seem to be much protest against syrian presence, not in the democratically elected parliament, in the government, or in the streets, but than again Syria isn't destroying houses, building syrian settlements, walls, curfews, imposing its will upon libanon, and their presence is officially legal, as they were invited by the government, much like us-troops in SA.


Even before Yasir Arafat's statement on 13 April 2002 condemning terrorism Arafat had repeatedly condemned suicide bombings both in Arabic and in English. Here are just two examples obtained from BBC monitoring.

1. On Palestinian TV, on 28 March 2002, at 20:08 GMT, Arafat stated in Arabic:

"On this occasion, I would like once again to reiterate our condemnation of yesterday's operation in Netanya, in which a number of innocent Israeli civilians were killed and wounded. This operation constitutes a deviation from our policy and a violation of our national and human values. I affirm our commitment to working toward an immediate cease-fire, as we informed General Zinni. We highly value his efforts. We informed him that we are ready for the immediate implementation of the Tenet's work plan without conditions, and without prejudicing any of its articles. Also, we have informed him of our readiness to implement the Mitchell Report recommendations in cooperation with the four-way US-Russian-European-UN committee headed by Gen. Zinni."

2. On December 16, 2001, in a speech on the occasion of Id al-Fitr in Ramallah (Gaza Palestine Satellite Channel Television, in Arabic, on 16 December 2001 at 16:00 GMT) Arafat stated in Arabic:

"Today, I emphasize once again the complete and immediate halt to all armed operations. Once again, I call for a complete halt to all operations, especially suicidal operations, which we have always condemned. We will punish all those who carry out and mastermind such operations. This also applies to the firing of mortar shells, which have no objective but to provide an excuse for the Israeli attacks on us, our people, our children, and our women. Any violation of this decision will be considered an attempt to harm the higher national interests of our people and of our Arab nation."

[alexbmn]

Ella forget it ,its pointless .