Land for Peace has failed. Its time to give Peace or Land a try.

[christian]

Originally posted by takeo
France was a member of nato but refused to participate in any nato-action and had good relations with communist countries.
the PCF used to be the biggest party in france, nowadays they only have around 10% of the votes, but the communist labour union is still the most powerfull.
the pcf is certainly not maoist.

If my memory serve me correctly. France indirectly participate in the kosvo war, due to American and britain pressure. Thus, the nato army strike against Yugoslavia government.
It is britain and US, implementating action against Serbia.

Unless, European has their own independant army, such as Eurocorp. Or else, nato is just another instrument tool of US cowboy adventure.

[Mediocrates]

implementating action against Serbia.


Is that bad?

[takeo]

yes, it was bad and totally needless. Yougoslavia accepted foreign troops and autonomy for kosovo, the only thing they didn't accept was NATO-occupation and independance for kosovo under kla-leadership. Rambouillet was a joke and many innocent people died in Yougoslavia and kosovo because of the nato-actions, they also encouraged the kLA-terrorists to kill more serbian civilians, and the serbian para-military to commit crimes.
Funny (well, actually the better suited word is tragicomic...) if you compare the treatment of Israel and yougoslavia...

yes, france participated in this action, but many french didn't agree to this mistake, some french officials even spied for serbia.

well, actually if you like fairskinned, blonde tall women with blue eyes, you should go for scandinavian or Holland woman, French are more a mix of southern and northern European, and with a lot of influence from mediterranean or eastern european immigrants... (actually beautiful people too, israeli girls are one of the most beautiful i ever saw, especially the Russian jewish ones ...) . The normal french lady has brownish hair and green eyes but that isn't too bad either

Elke, i agree in the soviet-union the fear for the us was cultivated, but wasn't that vice-versa? (maybe not to the same extend, but pretty heavy too as i said before people in oklahoma were afraid of my parents because they had russian names...)
but still i think the us was a bigger treath to the soviet-union than vice-versa, for example during the cuba-crisis the us treated with a nuclear war.
i wonder how it felt for you to migrate to the great ennemy during the cold war? must have been strange, no, from both sides?
for my parents too to a certain extend, yet France wasn't really anti-soviet in the 60's.

[Mediocrates]

Are you medicated?

[elke]

Takeo, the reason US was threatening nuclear war, was because Russians secretly put missiles in Cuba, only 80 miles away from the Florida Coast. Would you care to venture a guess as to why they did that?

Americans were very afraid of the Russians, but I don't think that it was at panic level, for most of them. My husband was born and grew up in the Midwest, in a lower-middle-class community; and I would say that his - and his family's - views are representative of those of an "average American". I did not encounter too much anti-Russian feeling here, obviously not from him (he just hates Russian restaurant food, that's all ).

[takeo]

"Takeo, the reason US was threatening nuclear war, was because Russians secretly put missiles in Cuba, only 80 miles away from the Florida Coast. Would you care to venture a guess as to why they did that? "

probably for the same reason the us put missiles near the Russian border in Turkey in the 50's...

"Americans were very afraid of the Russians, but I don't think that it was at panic level, for most of them. My husband was born and grew up in the Midwest, in a lower-middle-class community; and I would say that his - and his family's - views are representative of those of an "average American". I did not encounter too much anti-Russian feeling here, obviously not from him (he just hates Russian restaurant food, that's all )."

that's what we would call a hate-love-relation

[elke]

No, I don't terrorize him with Russian cooking, I just cook Jewish instead .

Right, you guessed it: fear! The Soviet Union was pathologically paranoid, while believing that Communist revolution in the rest of the world was inevitable.

[christian]

Originally posted by takeo
well, actually if you like fairskinned, blonde tall women with blue eyes, you should go for scandinavian or Holland woman, French are more a mix of southern and northern European, and with a lot of influence from mediterranean or eastern european immigrants... (actually beautiful people too, israeli girls are one of the most beautiful i ever saw, especially the Russian jewish ones ...) . The normal french lady has brownish hair and green eyes but that isn't too bad either
.

Actually, Natalie Portman (starwars 1&2) is my favorite type.

Another my favorite is Nicole Kidman.

[takeo]

"No, I don't terrorize him with Russian cooking, I just cook Jewish instead . "

hey, Russian cuisine isn't too bad either!!! (but could terrorise your stomach)

"Right, you guessed it: fear! The Soviet Union was pathologically paranoid, while believing that Communist revolution in the rest of the world was inevitable"

yep, as the us had paranoid fear too of the Soviet-Union, if not they wouldn't have treatened with nuclear war in Cuba.

[Mediocrates]

Well you DID create the buffer states in Eastern Europe specifically to be a shield against Western invasion. Always willing to fight to the last Pole.

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by takeo
probably for the same reason the us put missiles near the Russian border in Turkey in the 50's...

Both sides knew at the time that the Jupiter missiles stationed in Turkey were at best, a symbolic act since they were already being withdrawn from service and were, even in 1962, several years obsolete. Part of the impetus behind stationing missiles in Cuba was a kind of brinksmanship specifically to see if the US would blink because while the launch platforms became this big political deal the fact that the 3CP had also stationed nuclear capable bombers there as well never rose to the same level of hysteria. The missiles were largely, again, a symbolic act to some extent. Moreover the 3CP wanted to have some response to our unfettered survellience over the 3CP even after the U2 Gary Powers incident. From 1960 until the first KH platforms the US continued spy missions both from planes and from primitive orbital platforms. Don't forget that the SR-71 was developed (61-62) to counter Russian AA technology that shot down the U2 and it was several years after operational use that LBJ admitted that the SR-71's even existed. All through the early 1960's the CIA and the USAF continued unrestricted spy flights using whatever they had handy. It was also the time of the st use of spy submarines to gather quality intelligence. The Russians knew this was going on but they couldn't find our subs or do anything about it. So, in order to make a grand play for relevance the 3CP did what it could and rattled some cages by deploying mobile launch platforms to Cuba.

[takeo]

maybe so, but at least the Soviets succeeded in removing the missiles at the Turkish-Soviet border and prevent any further aggression against Cuba.

[elke]

What are you talking about? What further aggression? We were taught, specifically, that Communism is going to take over the world. We were not taught ANYTHING about the Cuban missile crisis, or the Bay of Pigs for that matter. The first I heard of any of it was in an American History class here. That right there tells me that something wasn't kosher there, on the Soviet side: otherwise, it would have been shouted from the rooftops!

[takeo]

no matter what you were taught, the reality is that in pigs bay terrorists with us-aid tried to reverse the Cuban gouvernment. this is a well-known fact that has not been denied by the us-government as well. (maybe the soviets didn't like to talk much about the Cuba-crisis at all, because it could be perceived as a defeat)

[elke]

More likely that they had something to hide. It's telling, however, that I learned about the Bay of Pigs (as well as of the Cuban Missile Crisis) in Wheaton, IL High School: as conservative as your Oklahomans, I would venture to say.