There Is No Clash of Civilizations

ygalg1 · 02-24-2006, 07:19 AM

2/21/2006 Clip No. 1050
Arab-American Psychologist Wafa Sultan: There Is No Clash of Civilizations but a Clash between the Mentality of the Middle Ages and That of the 21st Century

Following are excerpts from an interview with Arab-American psychologist Wafa Sultan. The interview was aired on Al-Jazeera TV on February 21, 2006
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Wafa Sultan: The clash we are witnessing around the world is not a clash of religions, or a clash of civilizations. It is a clash between two opposites, between two eras. It is a clash between a mentality that belongs to the Middle Ages and another mentality that belongs to the 21st century. It is a clash between civilization and backwardness, between the civilized and the primitive, between barbarity and rationality. It is a clash between freedom and oppression, between democracy and dictatorship. It is a clash between human rights, on the one hand, and the violation of these rights, on other hand. It is a clash between those who treat women like beasts, and those who treat them like human beings. What we see today is not a clash of civilizations. Civilizations do not clash, but compete.

[...]

Host: I understand from your words that what is happening today is a clash between the culture of the West, and the backwardness and ignorance of the Muslims?

Wafa Sultan: Yes, that is what I mean.

[...]

Host: Who came up with the concept of a clash of civilizations? Was it not Samuel Huntington? It was not Bin Laden. I would like to discuss this issue, if you don't mind...

Wafa Sultan: The Muslims are the ones who began using this expression. The Muslims are the ones who began the clash of civilizations. The Prophet of Islam said: "I was ordered to fight the people until they believe in Allah and His Messenger." When the Muslims divided the people into Muslims and non-Muslims, and called to fight the others until they believe in what they themselves believe, they started this clash, and began this war. In order to start this war, they must reexamine their Islamic books and curricula, which are full of calls for takfir and fighting the infidels.

My colleague has said that he never offends other people's beliefs. What civilization on the face of this earth allows him to call other people by names that they did not choose for themselves? Once, he calls them Ahl Al-Dhimma, another time he calls them the "People of the Book," and yet another time he compares them to apes and pigs, or he calls the Christians "those who incur Allah's wrath." Who told you that they are "People of the Book"? They are not the People of the Book, they are people of many books. All the useful scientific books that you have today are theirs, the fruit of their free and creative thinking. What gives you the right to call them "those who incur Allah's wrath," or "those who have gone astray," and then come here and say that your religion commands you to refrain from offending the beliefs of others?

I am not a Christian, a Muslim, or a Jew. I am a secular human being. I do not believe in the supernatural, but I respect others' right to believe in it.

Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: Are you a heretic?

Wafa Sultan: You can say whatever you like. I am a secular human being who does not believe in the supernatural...

Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: If you are a heretic, there is no point in rebuking you, since you have blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet, and the Koran...

Wafa Sultan: These are personal matters that do not concern you.

[...]

Wafa Sultan: Brother, you can believe in stones, as long as you don't throw them at me. You are free to worship whoever you want, but other people's beliefs are not your concern, whether they believe that the Messiah is God, son of Mary, or that Satan is God, son of Mary. Let people have their beliefs.

[...]

Wafa Sultan: The Jews have came from the tragedy (of the Holocaust), and forced the world to respect them, with their knowledge, not with their terror, with their work, not their crying and yelling. Humanity owes most of the discoveries and science of the 19th and 20th centuries to Jewish scientists. 15 million people, scattered throughout the world, united and won their rights through work and knowledge. We have not seen a single Jew blow himself up in a German restaurant. We have not seen a single Jew destroy a church. We have not seen a single Jew protest by killing people. The Muslims have turned three Buddha statues into rubble. We have not seen a single Buddhist burn down a Mosque, kill a Muslim, or burn down an embassy. Only the Muslims defend their beliefs by burning down churches, killing people, and destroying embassies. This path will not yield any results. The Muslims must ask themselves what they can do for humankind, before they demand that humankind respect them.

Rishi · 02-25-2006, 02:55 AM

Originally Posted by ygalg1

Wafa Sultan It is a clash between civilization and backwardness, between the civilized and the primitive, between barbarity and rationality. It is a clash between freedom and oppression, between democracy and dictatorship. It is a clash between human rights, on the one hand, and the violation of these rights, on other hand. It is a clash between those who treat women like beasts, and those who treat them like human beings. What we see today is not a clash of civilizations. Civilizations do not clash, but compete.

Host: I understand from your words that what is happening today is a clash between the culture of the West, and the backwardness and ignorance of the Muslims?

andak01 · 02-25-2006, 08:20 AM

Thing is, these ideas (Islamist extremism) are much newer than the Middle Ages. And, the West is not as far removed from barbarism as we'd like ourselves to believe. The Holocaust is less than a century ago, and blacks were still routinely being lynched in my part of the world when I was growing up. I'd say, rather than a thousand years behind the times, the Middle East is closer to fifty years behind the times. If we look upon this rather than a clash of civilisations and more of an international crime wave, we've got a much better chance of involving Muslims in the struggle on our side. Otherwise, saying you are either for or against us is going to put a lot of moderates in a position of making a choice that isn't necessary in order to improve the situation. In fact, it allows for a world where people can be against us without resorting to terrorism. Our stated goal is to remove terrorism, not to remove all decent

Roland · 02-25-2006, 01:54 PM

The task of pulling the islamic culture out of the Middle Ages lies exclusively upon the moderates' shoulders, it can not be done from outside.

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Roland · 02-26-2006, 11:28 AM

Andak accidentally killed my Text and it is lost. Does anyone have a backup or email-notification?

andak01 · 02-26-2006, 12:36 PM

Roland, I posted this to the moderator's forum. I think you deserve a more detailed explaination, so here goes.
===================
Well, I throw myself on the mercy of my peers. I am truly ashamed to have made the same user error again. Here's how it happens. Anyone with a suggestion is welcome at this point.

I go into a thread with the intention of responding. I hit quote, delete the quote parts that I'm not interested in, put my response under and click submit. That's when I notice that I've originally clicked Edit instead of Quote!!! DOH! At that point, I can't undo, because the original post has already been destroyed. And, in addition to having destroyed a user's post, I've also got my name stuck at the bottom.

The other members, half of whom probably think I should be boiled in oil for my views anyway- are left with the impression that I am throwing my weight around and deleting posts whenever I don't like what they say. If that were true, the religion forum would be almost empty! I issue an apology, and I am thought to be lying about it.

In this most recent event, I PMed Roland to apologize. Well, I apologize to all the rest of you as well. This is embarrasing and I'm sorry. I think it's happened three or four times in the past year. Everytime it causes lots of trouble.

Roland · 02-26-2006, 11:34 PM

Shlt happenes.

The only thing I guess might help would be the browsers "back" button.
At least firefox, which I highly recommend, has a good cacheing functionality to restore previous memory conditions.
So the second I got aware of a mistake I would try to step back and copy&paste whatever needs to be saved to a textprocessor and then try to reconstruct deleted content in the updated database. This would only work if you did not close the browser and on straight backstepping paths, though.

Originally Posted by andak01

deleting posts whenever I don't like what they say. If that were true, the religion forum would be almost empty!

I'm shocked. I was only disappointed and sad about my lost post before.

varian · 02-27-2006, 12:16 AM

"Wafa Sultan: The Jews have came from the tragedy (of the Holocaust), and forced the world to respect them, with their knowledge, not with their terror, with their work, not their crying and yelling. Humanity owes most of the discoveries and science of the 19th and 20th centuries to Jewish scientists. 15 million people, scattered throughout the world, united and won their rights through work and knowledge. We have not seen a single Jew blow himself up in a German restaurant. We have not seen a single Jew destroy a church. We have not seen a single Jew protest by killing people. The Muslims have turned three Buddha statues into rubble. We have not seen a single Buddhist burn down a Mosque, kill a Muslim, or burn down an embassy. Only the Muslims defend their beliefs by burning down churches, killing people, and destroying embassies. This path will not yield any results. The Muslims must ask themselves what they can do for humankind, before they demand that humankind respect them."

In a nut shell!!! Killer post ygalg1!!!! Too bad some on the forum miss it's point.

Zlatorog · 02-27-2006, 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by Roland

Shlt happenes.

The only thing I guess might help would be the browsers "back" button.
At least firefox, which I highly recommend, has a good cacheing functionality to restore previous memory conditions.
So the second I got aware of a mistake I would try to step back and copy&paste whatever needs to be saved to a textprocessor and then try to reconstruct deleted content in the updated database. This would only work if you did not close the browser and on straight backstepping paths, though.

I'm shocked. I was only disappointed and sad about my lost post before.

With Opera you can as well forcefully close the browser (task manager) and then use the 'continue from last time' function. Everything you've typed will pop up. Our Firefox has access to some important encyclopedia. I'm using Opera because it always turnes the radio on, the feeds are great, and I'm looking for Chicago Public Radio real player pop up, if anyone's done that in the US?