From news article:
From news article:
H'mmmm, this makes a change, usually it's our brainier cousins who get all the accolades for brainpowerOriginally Posted by ygalg1
How about this
Brains & Brawn lol
We are not your cousins. Sorry!Originally Posted by Muslima
Toga, you can also call them brethren. A blink in the eye makes wonders, if you can accept it!Originally Posted by Toga
They are NOT our cousins. When Abraham sired Ismael after his covenant with G-d he was a different person. Abraham before the covenant with G-d was not the same Abraham after the covenant with G-d. 2 different people! And the current behavior of the Arab terrorists who want to murder every Jewish man, woman and child proves that point.Originally Posted by Justcurious
You didn't answer this when i asked you before, Toga, pls do so now.Originally Posted by Toga
1. How was Abraham a different person after the covenant?
2. and AFTER God made his covenant, why did Abraham circumcise Ishmael, (the first man to be circumsised) if he was now "a different person?"
3. TheTorah describes Ishmael as Abraham's son AFTER the covenant. Both his son's buried him. So again how was Abraham different?
4. Even your own sages don't dispute this, so do you know better than them?
23And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's house; and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.
24And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.
25And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.
How does the behaviour of people centuries later, prove what was then?Originally Posted by Toga
The mind boggles at your reasoning! So for all that time, when ARab's were not trying to kill you, there was no proof? What for example would you have used as proof 2 centuries ago?
Your bad sense of humour makes you more and more resemble the humourless moderators of the Ummah forum. Sad to say this, but it appears you, just like them, consider my comments impertinent to the forum. No doubt, you feel that I shouldn't be here making these "stupid" remarks, but I think at times it is good for you as well to notice that there are many kinds of people and beliefs on this planet.Originally Posted by Toga
We all have to live peacefully, so let's try to make this small time worth living!
I am not denying Muslims contribution as chess-- very popular through world wide by intellectuals. the coffee...etc.Originally Posted by Muslima
but notice; those poeple were not led by nassralla and bin laden, this newbie iran president, saddam and ilks.
those who brought these wonderfull inventions, showed dawa by examples! this what we jews also learned that this is how to show the light of our path by our deeds and contrbutions. not by selling advertisments as "mine better and correct"...etc
Chess and about 90% of the other so called "muslim inventions" in this article are not muslim inventions at all. Chess for example is a pre-islamic Persian invention. Muslims had nothing to do with it. Even the stories of 1001 nights are probably Babylonian stories and not Arab at all.Originally Posted by ygalg1
Originally Posted by Ariksan
Arab conribution to civilisation is indisputable Ariksan (see links below)
It goes without saying that a scientist./inventor/pioneer, usually expands on an idea of his predecessor. If for this reason, you want to believe that Arab's "stole" knowledge from their predecessor's then it stands to reason you will also believe that Nobel Prize winners "stole" the knowledge of their forbears and expanded on it. Are you going to say this about Einstein and other great names?
The Nobel Prize Laurautes have only been in existence since what 1900's? Jews in Europe , even though their numbers were small, have a higher percentage of the prizes. To use your logic, it would be perfectly in order to say that Jews"stole" the knowledge of their host countries and claimed it as their own? So, a question, :-
Would you say that 90% of the Jewish nobel laureates "took" the knowledge of their host societies?
Anyway, below are references that highlight Islam's indisputable
contribution to civilization. The first 4 links are from respectable NON MUSLIM sources, so you can't say they are biased. How would you refute them?
On what do you base your opinon that 90% are not Muslim inventions?
How Islam has kept us out of the 'Dark Ages'
Timeline of Islamic science and technology
List of Muslim scientists and philosophers
Empires - Islam: Empire of Faith
Starring: Ben Kingsley Director: Robert A. Gardner
Legacy of Islam
- Muslim Personalities
Glimpses of Renowned Scientists and Thinkers of Muslim Era
Muslim contribution to science, art, technology, medicine and civilization
Muslim Scientists and Scholars
On this site you can read fascinating accounts of some of the most talented
Muslim scholars in history whose contributions have left lasting marks in
the annals of science, astronomy, medicine, surgery, engineering and
Empires - Islam: Empire of Faith
Starring: Ben Kingsley Director: Robert A. Gardner
from that website...Originally Posted by Muslima
So what happened?
In early Islam, the caliphs (religious leaders) supported learning in the broadest sense; particularly when it related to useful subjects like arithmetic, geometry, medicine and cosmology. But later, the more traditional religious leaders and scholars began to worry about the limitations and dangers of knowledge. They declared that knowledge for its own sake could not be legitimate for Muslims. Knowledge had to be for the greater understanding of God or the good of Islamic society â€“ anything else was considered potentially destructive and un-Islamic.
As they gained influence, the caliphs took control of what could be taught and where. At elementary schools, madrasas (mosque schools) and universities, students were allowed to learn arithmetic, cosmology, medicine and some natural sciences, as long as they stayed within the framework of Qur'anic teaching. Original thought was not encouraged and philosophy was frowned upon. Philosophers were seen as wasting their time on questions already dealt with by the Qur'an and holy law. Scholars who wanted to study subjects like philosophy or physics had to go to smaller more obscure private schools and institutions that were generally sponsored by Royalty and the wealthier members of intellectual society.
Around the 11th century, the sciences were divided into 'Islamic' sciences and 'foreign' sciences. Islamic sciences were approved because they connected with religion and centred on the teachings of the Qur'an. Foreign sciences were increasingly viewed with suspicion by Islamic religious leaders and consequently sidelined.
The growing inflexibility of Islamic leaders led to the slowing of broader Islamic scientific study and a squeeze on original thought. Having said that, Islamic scientific endeavour continued up to the 15th century. By the time the last great Islamic dynasty, the Ottoman Empire, was on the wane in the late 16th century, Islamic science was largely a passive learning process in which there were few original texts being produced. And as Muslim society became more isolated from its neighbours, the exchange of ideas with other cultures became more difficult.
In other words, it was Islam itself that became the ultimate opponent of intellectual progression in the muslim world.
You are absolutely right, Ariksan. But dont be surprised. Lyin comes naturally with the qoran.Originally Posted by Ariksan
Chess for eg probably originated in China/India to Persia and then spread westward. Various arcane and more difficult forms of chess are still played in China.
Many countries claim to have invented the chess game in some incipient form. The most commonly held belief is that chess originated in India. The earliest mention of chess appears in the Indian classic, the Mahabharata, written circa 2,000 BC, where it was called Chaturanga. As a matter of fact, the Arabic, Persian, Greek and Spanish words for chess, are all derived from the Sanskrit Chaturanga. The present version of chess played throughout the world is ultimately based on a version of Chaturanga that was played in India around the 6th century AD. It is also believed that the Persians created a more modern version of the game after the Indians. The oldest known chess pieces have been found in excavations of ancient Persian territories. One ancient text refers to Shah Ardashir, who ruled 224 - 241 AD, as a master of the game.
Another theory exists that chess arose from the similar game of Chinese chess, or at least a predecessor, thereof, existing in China since the 2nd century B.C. Joseph Needham and David H. Li are two of many scholars who have favored this theory.
On another subject
Similarly, the hindu civilization and its mathematicians had already used complex math and algebra, computing distances between the earth and the moon a long time before Pythagoras. The hindu civilization is credited with inventing zero. The hindu numberals/numbers were taken (stolen is more appropriate) westward and it is a gross injustice to call the current numerals as arabic. There is no arabic origin there.
In that case ShimonG, can you comment on post 6 to Ariksan,Originally Posted by ShimonG
And since you subscribe to this belief, then you will aslo agree that Jewish nobel laureates "took" the knowledge of their host societies in Europe and thus "stole" it?
If not, then i want to know why you hold double standards.
is sheik pre-islamic terminology? cause chess (checkmate) means sheik dead.Originally Posted by Ariksan
perhaps you correct on other inventions...
Yes, your'e right Ygalg, and remember, Bin Laden is not a "leader", he is hiding somewhere. Nasrallah is a political product, and their job's are not realy to lead intellectually.Originally Posted by ygalg1
Ironically the Quran does emphasise how important an education and knowledge is.
About chess, did you know half the world's best chess players are Jewish?
By the way, what is your opinion of faithfreedom.net, since you advocate it on your profile, do you find it useful or helpful? you do know that Ali Sina is not an Islamic scholar?
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