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Thread: Josh Groban: Jewish-American Tragedy

  1. #1
    physics
    Guest

    Josh Groban: Jewish-American Tragedy

    This is what I call the Jewish-American tragedy. Famous singer Josh Groban's father is a Jew who converted to Christianity and married Christian woman. Josh was raised Christian.

    Bye Bye Judaism and Jewishness. Of course, this phenomenom is not limited to America.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Groban

  2. #2
    CanDo
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by physics
    This is what I call the Jewish-American tragedy. Famous singer Josh Groban's father is a Jew who converted to Christianity and married Christian woman. Josh was raised Christian.

    Bye Bye Judaism and Jewishness. Of course, this phenomenom is not limited to America.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Groban
    To me, it doesn't matter how Josh was raised. He is still Jewish and his offspring will be Jewish. It is far more important, to me, that, for the benefit of civilization, Jews continue to survive and flourish. Because of the limited number of Jews on this planet, inter-marriage is one way to expand the Jewish race.

  3. #3
    physics
    Guest

    Cando...

    To me, it doesn't matter how Josh was raised. He is still Jewish and his offspring will be Jewish. It is far more important, to me, that, for the benefit of civilization, Jews continue to survive and flourish. Because of the limited number of Jews on this planet, inter-marriage is one way to expand the Jewish race.
    What are you talking about? the father and Josh both deviated from Judaism. They actively deviated from the Jews. Jewish birth is one step, the next step is to follow Jewish culture/Judaism and affiliate with Jews.

    Jews that convert to other religions do not in any way contribute positively to the continuation of Jewish people.

    So conversion and intermarriage will somehow improve Jewish life? listen to yourself.

  4. #4
    physics
    Guest

    Cando...

    The only way intermarriage can improve Jews is if the the family maintains close relations with Israel, Jewish organizations, and that Jewish culture remains alive in the family.

    To my knowledge, Clearly, Josh's family doesn't demonstrate any of the above.

  5. #5
    CanDo
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by physics
    What are you talking about? the father and Josh both deviated from Judaism. They actively deviated from the Jews. Jewish birth is one step, the next step is to follow Jewish culture/Judaism and affiliate with Jews.
    Throughout history, Jews have contributed more towards the benefit of mankind than any other race, group or religion. What matters to me, is that this world is a better place to live because of the contributions of Jews.

    I don't feel that Jewish contributions depend upon whether or not Jews follow a particular culture or religion.

    Jews that convert to other religions do not in any way contribute positively to the continuation of Jewish people.
    I am an atheist. Even so, my offspring will always be Jewish regardless of their religion, culture or their religious beliefs. Every time a Jew has a child, it contributes to the continuation of the Jewish people.

    So conversion and intermarriage will somehow improve Jewish life? listen to yourself.
    It increases the number of Jews in this world, so it is a good thing.

  6. #6
    CanDo
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by physics
    The only way intermarriage can improve Jews is if the the family maintains close relations with Israel, Jewish organizations, and that Jewish culture remains alive in the family.

    To my knowledge, Clearly, Josh's family doesn't demonstrate any of the above.
    All Jews should strongly support Israel. If it were not for the extreme courage, remarkable sacrifices and the suffering of those that developed and defended and currently defend Israel, millions more Jews would have perished, and the great Jewish homeland would never have existed.

    Jews throughout this world should do everything possible to help and to strengthen Israel.

    If Josh's family does not support Israel, then I feel contempt for them. It is immoral for a Jew not to support Israel. It just goes to show the obvious, that there are good Jews and bad Jews, just like any other race.

  7. #7
    physics
    Guest

    Cando...

    I disagree with you on many points.

    If a Jew is passionate about Jewishness, then he/she would never convert to another religion and follow another culture. This only distances a Jew from the rest of Jewish people.

    Holding good relations with other Jews while converting to another religion is a contradiction.

    Jews don't have to be religious to contribute to Jewish people. There were/are many secular Jews who did tremendous things, but they were well aware of Jewish identity. Converting is an active process of distancing!

    Support for Israel is not limited for Jews only, I'd accept anyone willing to help. But Jews have special relation to Israel. But the Image of a Jew who converted to another religion, that supports Israel doesn't look right.

  8. #8
    physics
    Guest

    Cando...

    Birth to Jewish parent/s is only the first step. If intermarriage and deviation from Judaism and Jewish culture continues, in a few generations Jewish lineage becomes nothing more than burried history.

    If Jewishness is not rediscovered by the future generations, then it's meaningless to call them Jews, other than in the context of ancestry.

  9. #9
    CanDo
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by physics
    I disagree with you on many points.
    How is that possible?

    If a Jew is passionate about Jewishness, then he/she would never convert to another religion and follow another culture. This only distances a Jew from the rest of Jewish people.
    But...... there are Jews of all cultures. I am passionate about Jewishness, but not the Jewish culture or the Jewish religion. I was born in America, and have had almost no exposure to Jewish culture or Jewish religion. I love America and I take great pride in the fact that, if it weren't for the sacrifices of America's men and women in uniform, and if it weren't for America's great morality, this entire world would be ruled by tyrants, similar to those ruling Arab/moslem nations.

    That said, if it weren't for the great sacrifices of Jewish men and women in Israelis armed forces, the Jewish homeland wouldn't exist as a safe haven for ANY Jew. I can be a strong supporter of Israel, and a strong supporter of AIPAC and a strong supporter of the IDF, and take great pride in the history of good works by Jews, without regard to Jewish culture or Jewish religion.

    Holding good relations with other Jews while converting to another religion is a contradiction.
    Sometimes the needs of the groin outweigh the needs of the soul.

    Jews don't have to be religious to contribute to Jewish people. There were/are many secular Jews who did tremendous things, but they were well aware of Jewish identity. Converting is an active process of distancing!

    Support for Israel is not limited for Jews only, I'd accept anyone willing to help. But Jews have special relation to Israel. But the Image of a Jew who converted to another religion, that supports Israel doesn't look right.
    I am an atheist. That, plus my belief that religions are scams, brings me to believe that any Jew that converts to another religion is possibly suffering from some type of mental defect.

  10. #10
    CanDo
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by physics
    Birth to Jewish parent/s is only the first step. If intermarriage and deviation from Judaism and Jewish culture continues, in a few generations Jewish lineage becomes nothing more than burried history.
    Jewish history would survive nicely without Jewish culture or Judaism.

    If Jewishness is not rediscovered by the future generations, then it's meaningless to call them Jews, other than in the context of ancestry.
    As Popeye would say, I yam what I yam!

  11. #11
    physics
    Guest

    Cando

    can be a strong supporter of Israel, and a strong supporter of AIPAC and a strong supporter of the IDF, and take great pride in the history of good works by Jews, without regard to Jewish culture or Jewish religion.
    I am satisfied with that. That's great. At least you show some strong feelings about 'Jewish Politics.' I have to say that you are certainly not detrimental to Jews.

    I am an atheist. That, plus my belief that religions are scams, brings me to believe that any Jew that converts to another religion is possibly suffering from some type of mental defect.
    Bingo. That's exactly what I am trying to say, that the Groban guys are not normal in terms of religion/culture.

    I was born in America, and have had almost no exposure to Jewish culture or Jewish religion.
    Ok. But for many other Jews, it's important to keep the Jewish culture and Judaism alive.

  12. #12
    CanDo
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by physics
    Holding good relations with other Jews while converting to another religion is a contradiction.
    I converted to atheism, yet I am a strong supporter of most Jews and of Israel.

    I cannot understand why any Jew would be religious after experiencing or studying the Holocaust.

    I don't blame God for sitting by idly, eating popcorn, while 6 million Jewish men, women and children were brutally tortured and murdered. Neither do I blame God for creating Arabs the way that they are. I don't blame God because I believe that there is no god, no gods, no angels, no spirits, no devil, etc.

    There world consists of both good and evil that is solely created by mankind.

  13. #13
    physics
    Guest
    I cannot understand why any Jew would be religious after experiencing or studying the Holocaust.
    Zionists/Israel's great leaders were not religious, but they were passionate about Jewishness in the political context. I am critical of those Jews who lack such passion/concern, those that don't care.

  14. #14
    physics
    Guest
    All I want to see is Jews appreciating their history, and being proud Jews today, whether religious or not.

    I was trying to point out that Grobans conversion was a poor move that implies lack of respect for his own identity. Had they been secular and not converted, I would view them differently.

  15. #15
    physics
    Guest
    I just want to bring up an interesting point. What unites the Jews?

    Judaism/Jewish culture & concern for 'Jewish politics." If Jews lack both of these aspects, then there is no unity with other Jews.

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