13 dead at Ft. Hood, TX

[Madeline]

Originally Posted by Kachah

Wow! I am truly humbled.
Let me just put it stright. You are proud that your co-religionists did not support a mass-murderer (though I still have some reservations, but for argument's sake - assume so).
Are you for real?

Some have indeed spoken up against this massacre, and should be praised...andak being among them.
These are not the people/Muslims I worry about. I worry about those who cheer for him/Hasan.
I am just as appalled, just to be fair, hearing and reading about those who cheered for the man who killed Dr. Tiller ( late term abortion Dr.)
Extremes do exist on both sides, and we can't have a honest argument if we don't recognize this.
I also know that radicals are more prevalent in Islam. Where others have 'evolved' as a whole, Islam still needs to come into the 21st Century.

[andak01]

Originally Posted by Kachah

Wow! I am truly humbled.
Let me just put it stright. You are proud that your co-religionists did not support a mass-murderer (though I still have some reservations, but for argument's sake - assume so).
Are you for real?

Yeah for real, I'm not going to let people go around as they are doing and pretend that Muslim Americans do support what they don't. This guy couldn't find a Muslim defense lawyer in America to defend him. CAIR, which specializes in legal defense of Muslims has condemned him. So, as is always the case, a lot of people are going around stating that the Muslims are being silent and inactive and it simply isn't true. Muslims have been both vocal and active.

Now I'm pretty sure you could find an imam in western Pakistan or from that area that still supports this idiot. But they are getting scarcer and scarcer.

Back to the Onion article. It is an accurate reflection of Muslim sentiment even though it is a parody.

[Kachah]

Originally Posted by andak01

Back to the Onion article. It is an accurate reflection of Muslim sentiment even though it is a parody.

No, Andak. It's an accurate reflection of our PERCEPTION of what moslem sentiment should be. Whether these two are the same I am not so sure.
I have seen people dancing of joy on Sep 11... guess who they were. I've seen the crowd cheering an Arab showing his hands soaked in blood after lynching two Israeli policemen who got lost out in the West Bank somewhere. There were no non-moslem in that crowd, Andak. You will probably claim that they were "bad" moslems - yet they were moslems and en masse. Prove me wrong if you can.
Not supporting a mass-murderer is not a matter of some form of gallantry or noble behaviour. People don't get brownie points for not supporting killers, it's what's naturally expected from human beings. You got it all wrong.

[pagan]

Originally Posted by andak01

If you believe that, then you can go join Al Qaida so that the other 99% of us can put a target on you.

Al-Qaida is a true Muslim organization. Infidels like me have no place there.

Originally Posted by andak01

Prophet Muhammad (SAW) did not kill the women and children of the Bani Quraizah. Nor was he the one that ordered their men executed.

Prophet killed the men and sold the women and children as slaves....that was very humane ..isn't ? Mo murdered Asma Bint Marwan, the poetess. It was Muhammad who ordered their assassinations(the other was a fake dummy).He had the power to stop or act.It was his men who brutally beheaded the Innocent Jews one by one. Islam exterminated the Jews from Arabia. At least I am happy that you accepted that Muhammad was a mass murderer.

Originally Posted by andak01

And yet a multitude of Muslims around the world expressed their sympathies for the victims, including BTW the over 40 Muslims that were murdered in cold blood inside the WTC.

Again killing Muslims is Islamic! Why ? because MO did it ! MO killed some Muslims when they started a mosque without his consent. He killed a old Muslim man for not offering namaz well.(Strange..you cry for the 30 Muslims,but not for the 3000 Infidels.....Oh....Infidels are 'worst of the creatures',their life's don't matter.

Originally Posted by andak01

Betraying a country that provides support and does not prevent you from praying is not jihad, it's cowardice.

Again betraying the country is Islamic. Why ? because MO did it !

Muhammad betrayed his clan ,he killed the Jews who gave him shelter. Muhammad was a traitor to his country ,so is Muslims.

Note :- Jihad is cowardice.Islam is cowardice.

Originally Posted by andak01

This country has never waged a war on Islam and anyone who says otherwise is lying.

America did wage war against Islam. From Barbary pirates to Taliban America indeed is waging a war against Islam. And true Muslims like you and Bin Laden have understood it. That's why Bin Laden is waging physical Jihad against America in Afghanistan and you Internet Jihad in IF(against American alley Israel).

[andak01]

Originally Posted by pagan

Al-Qaida is a true Muslim organization. Infidels like me have no place there.

Al-Qaida believes itself to be a true Muslim organization. But they are at war with Islam and the proof is their willingness to kill Muslims just as they did in the WTC, just as they are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan. Fortunately more and more Muslims are standing up to them as translators, informants and indeed as soldiers.

Prophet killed the men and sold the women and children as slaves....that was very humane ..isn't ?

Assuming you believe that to be true, why is it more inhumane than when exactly the same acts and worse involving more people were being carried out by Christians in Byzantium in the same period and close to the same location? Emporor Heraclius made Christianity the state religion and killed tens of thousands of Jews (more than all the PEOPLE who died on both sides of the Arabian conflict with Mecca during the Prophet's life and that including the execution of the Quraizah). And BTW, whereas Heraclius specified that it was the Jews he was after and documented it in writing, no Muslim history claims that the motive for executing the Quraizah was their religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_against_Heraclius

Muhammad betrayed his clan ,he killed the Jews who gave him shelter.

Actually he didn't. The Jews who honored the Pact of Medina and (in at least one case) fought with the Muslims at the Battle of the Trench were not punished.

America did wage war against Islam. From Barbary pirates...

That's a lie. The Muslim leader of Morocco signed a treaty with America that was honored. So again, there were Muslims on both sides of the conflict.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/bar1786t.asp

...to Taliban America indeed is waging a war against Islam.

Second lie. If there was any truth to that, why would America set up a new government lead by Muslims? Why not a provisional secular or Christian government?

And true Muslims like you and Bin Laden have understood it. That's why Bin Laden is waging physical Jihad against America in Afghanistan and you Internet Jihad in IF(against American alley Israel).

I understand that Bin Laden is claiming to wage jihad, but the ullemah and the other groups that could validate such a jihad do not support him and in fact have issued fatwahs against what he is doing.

[Mil]

Fortunately more and more Muslims are standing up to them as translators, informants and indeed as soldiers.

Really? Any statistics on that?

[Mediocrates]

In a simple case Hamas is an organizational disaster because of informants, paid and otherwise. Hamas is one of the most penetrated organizations around. For whatever reasons, there are many people who stand up to them or exploit them or just want revenge.

[andak01]

Originally Posted by Mil

Fortunately more and more Muslims are standing up to them as translators, informants and indeed as soldiers.

Really? Any statistics on that?

What I can say is, at the epicenter of Al Qaida support, in Waziristan, there continues to be a war waged by the government of Pakistan.

A full-fledged security operation called 'Zalzala' (earthquake) by Pakistan Army’s 14th Infantry Division in January to flush out Baitullah Mehsud's Taliban militants from the area. Until then the area was infested with pro-Taliban militants, with some villagers providing them support and shelter. Many militants were killed during the operation, and within three days the security forces were in full control of the area. The army later captured a few other villages and small towns to put the squeeze on Baitullah Mehsud.[67]

However, the operation led to a huge displacement of local population. According to 14 Division GOC Maj Gen Tariq Khan, about 200,000 people, including men, women and children, were displaced. Khalid Aziz, former NWFP chief secretary and expert on tribal affairs, said the displacement was "one of the biggest in tribal history" adding that human cost of the conflict in Waziristan "has gone unrecorded."[68]

The US is enlisting the assistance of local Muslim tribesmen and with some success. The locals have raised a private army of about 30,000 against the Taliban in the region.

Recent American military proposals outlines an intensified effort to enlist tribal leaders in the frontier areas of Pakistan in the fight against Al Qaeda and the Taliban, as part of a broader effort to bolster Pakistani forces against militancy in the region.

The proposal is modeled in part on a similar effort by American forces in Iraq that has been hailed as a great success in fighting foreign insurgents there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_North-West_Pakistan

It bears mentioning that for decades, nothing of this sort was even imaginable in Pakistan. The Taliban gained control of the Waziristan region without a whimper and the Pakistani government did little to prevent that. This is a real effort with Muslims giving their lives to stop the spread of radicalism.

None of the successes would have been possible if there was no support among Muslims for the government or the military.

[CLL1709]

`

Andak, you miss the point while diligently dissecting each and every word and pointing out each "Christian" crime. Judaism and Christianity have at their core and consistant message of what we call "The Golden Rule"..Do unto others what you would have them do unto you. Yeshua's message is of peace, love and forgiveness. Because some western nations and/or cultures behave in a manner contrary to the teaching of Christianity does not invalidate it.

Islam cannot claim a benevolent basis, it's teachings are to subjugate everyone else to it's beliefs and that anything goes in that endeavor. You can cite passages that give lip service to kindness, but that is always repudiated by the jihad.

The numbers however arrived at do not give Islam credibility, it only means that the sword is more powerful than the word, especially in the countries that boast Muslim supremacy. So yes, I consider all of Islam irredeemable.


From Andak:
"Sure. And there was no Holocaust and the West is impervious to crimes against humanity. Lalala."

Well actually, we have Abraham and Moses as part of our base beliefs. Within the Quran there are books of Abraham (Ibrahim) and Moses (Musa). I mention the name of Abraham every prayer. But let me remind you of a time some decades ago when there were Jewish anarchists. At that time, it was said that the anarchists were the cause of all the world's problems. They did actually throw bombs on occasion, and anarchists were by no means all Jewish. But this fanning of the fires ended up very bad for them, and we look upon that genocide as one of the great wrongs in history. Now, you want to declare a fifth of the world as iredeemable?[/QUOTE]

[Sanket]

From Reuters: Imam tied to Fort Hood shooter "killed" in Yemen raid
Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:13pm IST

SANAA (Reuters) - A radical Muslim preacher linked by U.S. intelligence to a gunman who killed 13 people at a U.S. Army base is believed to have died in a Yemen airstrike on al Qaeda militants, a security official said on Thursday.

"Anwar al Awlaki is suspected to be dead (in the air raid)," said the Yemeni official, who asked not to be identified. Yemen said 30 militants were killed in the strike in the eastern province of Shabwa.

The gunman in the Nov. 5 shooting at the Fort Hood, Texas army base, Major Nidal Malik Hasan, had contacts with Awlaki late last year, U.S. authorities believe.

[Madeline]

Originally Posted by Sanket

From Reuters: Imam tied to Fort Hood shooter "killed" in Yemen raid
Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:13pm IST

Have they ever clearly tied him to Hassan, and can they now investigate his dealings easier than when alive, i.e search his home, computer etc?