Dier Yassin "Massacre" a Fraud, say the Arabs!

[MGB8]

http://arabterrorism.tripod.com/FAQ/yassin2.html


Deir Yassin - Arab study shows there was no massacre

A Battle, Not A Massacre

Pro-Arab Lobby Now Admit 100, Not 254, Arabs Died During 1948 Battle of Deir Yassin

(http://israelvisit.co.il/BehindTheNe...-30.htm#Battle)

NEW YORK- A pro-Arab lobby group which has always claimed that 254 Arabs died during the 1948 battle of Deir Yassin has quietly changed its story, and now admits that about 100, not 254, were killed. The change comes just weeks after the Zionist Organization of America (ZOA) released a study showing that the number of Arabs killed in Deir Yassin was less than half of what has been claimed, and that they were not massacred.

The "Deir Yassin Remembered" group, which is headed by Daniel McGowan of Hobart & William Smith Colleges (NY), had repeatedly claimed that 254 Arabs died at Deir Yassin. For example, in the April 1996 issue of the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, McGowan wrote of "254 innocent men, women and children who were systematically slaughtered." A February 1998 posting on the group's web site, the "Deir Yassin Remember Online Information Center," claimed that "In all, 254 men, women, and children were systematically slaughtered."

But during the past week, the "Deir Yassin Remembered Group" has twice revised the death toll downwards. In a press release on March 22, 1998, McGowan wrote that "an estimated 100-250 Arab villagers were slaughtered." Then, in a listing of forthcoming activities, released on March 25, 1998, McGowan reported that "over 100 Palestinian men, women and children were killed."

The changes in the death toll count come in the wake of the ZOA's publication of a new study, Deir Yassin History of a Lie, a 32-page analysis (with 156 footnotes) by ZOA National President Morton A. Klein. (For a free copy, please call (212) 481-1500.)

Among other things, the ZOA study shows that the original claim of 254 dead was not based on any actual body count. The number was invented by Mordechai Ra'anan, leader of the Jewish soldiers who fought in Deir Yassin. He later admitted that the figure was a deliberate exaggeration in order to undermine the morale of the Arab forces, which had launched a war against the Jews in Mandate Palestine to prevent the establishment of Israel. Other eyewitnesses to the battle estimated that about 100 Arabs had died. Despite Ra'anan's admission, the figure 254 was circulated by Palestinian Arab leader Hussein Khalidi. His claims about Deir Yassin were the basis for an article in the New York Times claiming a massacre took place--an article that has been widely reprinted and cited as "proof" of the massacre throughout the past 50 years.

The ZOA study describes how in 1987, researchers from Bir Zeit University, an Arab university in Palestinian Authority territory, interviewed every Arab survivor of the battle and concluded that the number of civilians who died in Deir Yassin could not have been more than 120. Despite the study, the "Deir Yassin Remembered" group continued using the figure of 254 dead.

ZOA president Klein said "Now that the ZOA has publicized the Bir Zeit University findings and proven that far fewer Arabs died than was always claimed, the pro-Arab propagandists have been forced to quietly change their story. Our booklet proves not only that the death toll was falsely inflated, it also proves there was no massacre, rape, or mutilation."

Meanwhile, Dr. Hussein Khalidi is at the center of a startling new report, in which several Arab eyewitnesses to the Deir Yassin battle admitted that some of their original claims about Jewish atrocities were fabricated. The latest issue of the Jerusalem Report (April 2, 1998) reveals that in a forthcoming BBC television program, Hazem Nusseibeh, an editor of the Palestine Broadcasting Service's Arabic news in 1948, admits that he was told by Hussein Khalidi to fabricate claims of atrocities at Deir Yassin in order to encourage Arab regimes to invade the Jewish state-to-be.

According to the Jerusalem Report, Nusseibeh "describes an encounter at the Jaffa Gate of Jerusalem's Old City with Deir Yassin survivors and Palestinian leaders, including Hussein Khalidi ... 'I asked Dr. Khalidi how we should cover the story,' recalled Nusseibeh. 'He said, "We must make the most of this." So we wrote a press release stating that at Deir Yassin children were murdered, pregnant women were raped. All sorts of atrocities.'"

The BBC program then shows a recent interview with Abu Mahmud, who was a Deir Yassin resident in 1948, who says that the villagers protested against the atrocity claims "'We said, "There was no rape." [Khalidi] said, "We have to say this, so the Arab armies will come to liberate Palestine from the Jews.'"

Nusseibeh, who is a member of one of Jerusalem's most prominent Arab families and presently lives in Amman, told the BBC that the fabricated atrocity stories about Deir Yassin were "our biggest mistake," because "Palestinians fled in terror" and left the country in huge numbers after hearing the atrocity claims.

In 1948, Labor Zionist leaders initially claimed there was a massacre, in order to score points against the rival Irgun Zvai Leumi and Stern Group, the fighters who conquered Deir Yassin. But Israel's Labor-led governments have, over the years, gradually rescinded the massacre accusation. A little-known 1952 Defense Ministry judicial court ruled that Deir Yassin was a legitimate military target. Official Israeli government statements about Deir Yassin, in 1960 and 1969 (under Foreign Ministers Golda Meir and Abba Eban), formally rebuked the Labor Zionist officials who had made the false massacre accusation in 1948, describing the "massacre" charge as a "fairy tale" and a "big lie."

Meanwhile, the "Deir Yassin Remembered" group intends to hold a "50th Anniversary Memorial Conference" at the Hakawati theater in Jerusalem on April 9, 1998. On the same day, in Los Angeles, Arab activists intend to hold a "vigil" outside the Simon Wiesenthal Center's Museum of Tolerance, which commemorates the Holocaust. They will also be holding a vigil at the University of California at Davis, and a rally in Washington, D.C. on May 15, 1998, the 50th anniversary of the establishment of Israel.

[Womble]

Yup. I have first seen this refutation in an Arab newspaper, by the way, the Middle East Times (its either Jordanian or Egyptian). Will try to dig out the link.

[tandem]

the arabs are masters of revisionist history. the whole palestinian identity is nothing but a fraud. what does the whole world say about it? give them a <deleted> state!

so wats news. the Dier Yassin lie mereley set the precedent for the Jenin "massacer lie" in 2002 and many others. The entire Arab case is based on lies, falsehoods and distortions. Sing me something new.

What do you say to all those who say holocaust victims were less than 2 million people?

[Womble]

Originally Posted by SBR

What do you say to all those who say holocaust victims were less than 2 million people?

I say there's mountains of evidence to the contrary- something that can't be said about Deir Yassin.

[danholo]

And anybody who would understand the Holocaust in the slightest (which I can't say for myslef) will come to the conclusion that it's not just of the people killed but the inhumanity of man. When people are treated as numbers and mere objects, it really shows how evil people can be.

[Static]

Wow, this article is so full of wide-open, gaping holes-in-logic that I could spend a full day picking it apart (using these seemingly innate CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS our species seems to have been gifted with at birth, unlike the rest of you), but since I don't have all day, I will make 4 points:

Point 1. How was Ariel Sharon prosecuted for a massacre that never happened?

Point 2. This article asserts that the "lies" were 1) fabricated by Jews to lower the morale of the Arabs and 2) fabricated by the Jewish labor party to "score points against the rival Irgun Zvai Leumi and Stern Group." How are Arabs to be blamed for propogating what was initially a Jewish lie?

This kind of logic is akin to a small child yelling out "I lied, and YOU FELL FOR IT!!! HAHAHAHAHAH!!!"

Point 3.
254
- 122
------
132

A massacre of 132 instead of 254...

Aside from the fact that I would find it hard to believe that anyone can REALLY verify any of the claims being made by this article, I'm not quite seeing how 132 dead as opposed to 254 all of the sudden justifies either side, or makes it any less of a "massacre."

Perhaps the point of this article is that 132 dead it makes it this far lesser of an "evil," and thus it no longer constitues as a "massacre?"

Point 4.

A little-known 1952 Defense Ministry judicial court ruled that Deir Yassin was a legitimate military target.

How does a village - obviously compromised of civllians - EVER (I cannot place enough emphasis on the EVER) constitute as a "legitimate military target?"

By this logic, how could one refute terrorist groups' assertions that all Israeli citizens pose as "legitimate military targets?"

[KettleWhistle]

Originally Posted by Static

blablabla... CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS...blabla...
How does a village - obviously compromised of civllians - EVER (I cannot place enough emphasis on the EVER) constitute as a "legitimate military target?"

Civilians? So the battle was between an army and civilians?

I think this paragraph from the original article does an adequate job of describing how this battle became a "massacre:"

From news article:

According to the Jerusalem Report, Nusseibeh "describes an encounter at the Jaffa Gate of Jerusalem's Old City with Deir Yassin survivors and Palestinian leaders, including Hussein Khalidi ... 'I asked Dr. Khalidi how we should cover the story,' recalled Nusseibeh. 'He said, "We must make the most of this." So we wrote a press release stating that at Deir Yassin children were murdered, pregnant women were raped. All sorts of atrocities.'"

[Static]

Originally Posted by MGB8

Among other things, the ZOA study shows that the original claim of 254 dead was not based on any actual body count. The number was invented by Mordechai Ra'anan, leader of the Jewish soldiers who fought in Deir Yassin. He later admitted that the figure was a deliberate exaggeration in order to undermine the morale of the Arab forces, which had launched a war against the Jews in Mandate Palestine to prevent the establishment of Israel. Other eyewitnesses to the battle estimated that about 100 Arabs had died. Despite Ra'anan's admission, the figure 254 was circulated by Palestinian Arab leader Hussein Khalidi. His claims about Deir Yassin were the basis for an article in the New York Times claiming a massacre took place--an article that has been widely reprinted and cited as "proof" of the massacre throughout the past 50 years.

Originally Posted by MGB8

In 1948, Labor Zionist leaders initially claimed there was a massacre, in order to score points against the rival Irgun Zvai Leumi and Stern Group, the fighters who conquered Deir Yassin. But Israel's Labor-led governments have, over the years, gradually rescinded the massacre accusation. A little-known 1952 Defense Ministry judicial court ruled that Deir Yassin was a legitimate military target. Official Israeli government statements about Deir Yassin, in 1960 and 1969 (under Foreign Ministers Golda Meir and Abba Eban), formally rebuked the Labor Zionist officials who had made the false massacre accusation in 1948, describing the "massacre" charge as a "fairy tale" and a "big lie."

It certainly doesn't take someone actually striving for objectivity when reading through this article to easily conclude who the lying party in this "massacre" was.

And you failed to address the most important point I made: how does a difference of 132 people make it any less of a massacre? Because this article claims that a hundred less people died, does this somehow justify this atrocity?

[KettleWhistle]

NO. There is a difference between a battle and a massacre. There is also a difference between making a strategic desision to exaggerate the number of casualties among enemy combatants, and inventing stories about massacre of civilians, rape, etc...

Overall, the article describes a typical propagandist tactic of using the highest numbers and every lie they can gather to support their stories. In this case it went something like this: "Well, the Arabs say that there were rapes and murders and child killings and the Jews say that 254 Arabs got killed, so we'll just pool all of it together to say that the Jews are evil."

But there is one problem with all of that--it is all lies. Who invented these lies doesn't really matter that much.

[Static]

Your logic is astounding. Why don't you go ahead and explain to us what the difference between "making a strategic desision to exaggerate the number of casualties among enemy combatants," and "making a strategic decision to exaggerate the severity of the atrocities inflicted on the populace," because I'm not seeing it. In fact, I'm not seeing a difference AT ALL.

Lying as a means to an end, whether the "end" is to demoralize a people, or by the exaggeration of the severity of an atrocity, is just as wrong, no matter which way you look at it. Well, at least to those of us who aren't trying to justify abominable deeds to elevate one side.

[KettleWhistle]

Do I really need to explain the difference between civilians and combatants, and between battlefield strategy and presentation of lies as historical fact?

[MGB8]

Static, are you mixing up Sabra and Shatilla with Dier Yassin (the Sharon thing)?

2 - Jews aren't using Dier Yassin right now to score political points.

3 - Given the type of warfare that was going on, including launching of attacks from that village, the village was most certainly a legitimate military target. Not all wars are fought by the British regulars, if you understand my meaning.

4 - There is a difference between "massacre" and casualties in battle. Raping women, lining people up to be shot, etc. etc. - that's more massacre. Killing of combatants with a degree of collateral damage - battle.

[Reffo]

Originally Posted by Static

Point 1. How was Ariel Sharon prosecuted for a massacre that never happened?

Either way, whether Deir Yassin was a massacre or the deaths were the casualties of a battle, the deaths of any civilians are always regrettable. However, I think you made a mistake in blaming Sharon for Deir Yassin, I don't think he had any involvement in that battle. Instead, I suspect that you were thinking of his role in Sabra and Chatilla which was actually perpetrated by Lebanese Christian Militia who in turn retaliated for Palestinian massacres of christians in Beit Mellat in the north of Lebanon, Deir Ayach in Northern Lebanon, Kab Elias, an Islamic Christian village situated in the Bekaa etc. as well as the assasination of the Lebanese prime minister, Bashir Gemayel. Although Israel was not directly involved in Sabra and Chatilla Sharon was indicted for not preventing the massacre.