The puny Israeli Navy

The Israeli army has the best equipment in any army in the world, your airforce is one of the best in the world.

However, Your Navy is quite small compared to the likes of Egypt. I am surprised at the neglect this service has seen. Sure you have 3 modern Submarines, Modern corvettes and some Missile and patrol boats. It is not the Technology of the Ships that are the problem. But the numbers of Surface ships is inadaquate, and none are Ocean capable, except the Saar 5 corvettes.

The number of Dolphins Submarines is inadequate. Hell, Greece and Turkey have more than 8 Subs each.

The Israeli Navy does'nt operate any frigates, the staple of many Ocean going Navies today.

The Saar 5 class of ship in particular is great, but there are really much too few, a measly 3. A higher number of that class would remedy the problem.

Another SERIOUS problem, the Israel navy has NO Amphibious landing ships or Mine layers or sweepers. Mines are very dangerous and it is fatal for Israel not to have any sweepers.

For a counrty surrounded by potential enemies and having your ports to keep yourselves alive and going. Your navy is much smaller than I think it has to be, to be a credible deterent.

And maybe a small aircraft carrier, too (Yeah, right).

Does any of the countries that you mentioned have U boats that are capable
of launching nuclear warheads?


Article in Swedish:


http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyhete...176130,00.html

Yeah, I read that the Israeli Submarines can launch Popeye Turbo SLCM'S to a range of 3000KM, but that has not been totally proven.

And the smallness and lack of a ocean fleet are still crippling problems for the navy.

Originally posted by Mr. Pumps
Yeah, I read that the Israeli Submarines can launch Popeye Turbo SLCM'S to a range of 3000KM, but that has not been totally proven.

And the smallness and lack of a ocean fleet are still crippling problems for the navy.

If I understand the article correctly it was sucessfully tested by Israel and the US two years ago. The information has just been released.

Yeah, those missiles suppose to provide the "second strike" ability. I hope we won`t get to that though.

OK so three nuclear equipped submarines. That number is still inadaquate. And I don't Get how a diesel submarine, even the Ultra modern Dolphins can carry cruise missiles a luxury of Nuclear Subs.

And the most capable Warship in the Israeli navy, SAAR 5, is way to tiny in number. I read first eight being built , than four and then three. Eight Warships of class was the best Idea and to boost the class now up to that number would serve Israel better.

Fact is that Israel also doesn't really need a navy. Only Egypt, Lebanon and Syria have sea acces and they also do not have great navies.

However, IF one of those countries would start to invest in their navy, you can be sure that Israel will tackle that threat, but this does not nessessarily means that Israel will procure other or more ships.

Most ships of the Israeli navy are simply used as coast guard, so there is no need to have a large quantity of vessels.

The sea is a vital way for Israel to maintian contact with the outside world. Israel does have sea access through the port of Haifa.

Egypt by the Four frigates it operates can harm israeli shipping and those ships are more capable than any Israel has at the moment.

Are you talking about economics or are you talking about warfare here?

Once those Egyptian frigates will make some noise you can count that Israel will call for CAS and destroy the threat immediately.

You are mistaken, the Egyptian frigates with the SM-1MR SAM is the best SAM protected ship in th Middleeast, so any CAS attack Israel relies on would be at a risk.

I am talking about the economic destruction a more larger Egyptian navy could do in a potential conflict.

The SAAR 5 ships are Israeli's best and there is only 3, a number very deficient to protect israel.

On Jane webpages the Admiral of Israeli navy said more purchases of the Saar 5 would happen, but the Three times large Egyptian navy, is a potent force, so sooner is better than later.

Well, the Beqa'a valley in Lebanon was also full of SAM's but what was their real threat?

Numbers don't say a thing and you should know. Israel is and has always been outnumbered.

Originally posted by Barak
Well, the Beqa'a valley in Lebanon was also full of SAM's but what was their real threat?

Numbers don't say a thing and you should know. Israel is and has always been outnumbered.

The is a big difference, the Sryian SAM batteries in the Beqa valley during the 1982 war was of Soviet design.

The Ex. Western Oliver Perry warships in the Egyptian navy have Western designed weapons.

Curious too! Egypt has mine layers, But Israel has no sweepers, and a mining of vital Israeli ports would be bad in a war situation.

Sure Israel was always outnumbered, but the Egyptians are more now than ever increasing their ownership of Western weapons. Those Frigate are a example and the Sa'ar 5 is a match but there are only 3 of them is service.

I guess if you could give egypt some of it's own medicine by Sinking a former OHP class ship With a Missile boat's missile. The way Egypt did in 1967 to the Israeli destroyer Eilat.

Missile boat wise, Israel is fine, only China makes such boats as heavily armed and Israel recently launched a new Sa'ar 4.5 missile boat with a new State- of- the- art 25MM CIWS.

But say at some point the Israeli navy wants to blockade Iran, Missile boats won't do it. Sa'ar 5 can do it, but 3 is not enough to strike long range territories.

well, of course Israel could procure more sa'ar 5 and ther vessels, but there are some problems and reasons for that.

- the navy isn't a big priority, although there are signs that this is changing now.

- money. Israel has to spend it's available resources as good as it possibly gets and invests more on the AF, which is one of the, if not the most important forces. Israel spends also a great deal of money on the army. So the navy is kinda the little brother.

- A lot of time and money also goed to R&D. The Arrow system for instance is one of them.

- No real threat of other navies. True, Egypt has got a better navy, but has signed a peace deal with Israel, althougth of course Israel and Egypt aren't friendly towards each other, it is hihgly unlikely under the present circumstances that we will see a clash between Israel and Egypt.

- The Dolphin is not the only sub in Israeli service. Also in service is the Gal, also three in service currently.

- Why would Israel want to impose a bloccade on Iran? If Israel would have enough ships to do such a thing, they will be wxposed to a lot of danger. In such a case they are sitting ducks.

Originally posted by Barak
well, of course Israel could procure more sa'ar 5 and ther vessels, but there are some problems and reasons for that.

- the navy isn't a big priority, although there are signs that this is changing now.

- money. Israel has to spend it's available resources as good as it possibly gets and invests more on the AF, which is one of the, if not the most important forces. Israel spends also a great deal of money on the army. So the navy is kinda the little brother.

- A lot of time and money also goed to R&D. The Arrow system for instance is one of them.

- No real threat of other navies. True, Egypt has got a better navy, but has signed a peace deal with Israel, althougth of course Israel and Egypt aren't friendly towards each other, it is hihgly unlikely under the present circumstances that we will see a clash between Israel and Egypt.

- The Dolphin is not the only sub in Israeli service. Also in service is the Gal, also three in service currently.

- Why would Israel want to impose a bloccade on Iran? If Israel would have enough ships to do such a thing, they will be wxposed to a lot of danger. In such a case they are sitting ducks.

But there are no minehunters despite Egyptian mine layers and if the seaport of Haifa or Ashdod was shutdown by mines it would be disasterous for Israel as the sea provides Israel's only means of transporting goods.

The Gal submarines are up for sale because of their age if I am not mistaken or to be scrapped leaving Israel still only 3 submarines.

What is kind of Interesting is that Iran has modern 3 Kilo Type 677 subs. And if Iran might modify her subs to do the same.

Originally posted by Mr. Pumps


But there are no minehunters despite Egyptian mine layers and if the seaport of Haifa or Ashdod was shutdown by mines it would be disasterous for Israel as the sea provides Israel's only means of transporting goods.

As I said before, the chance that Israel and Egypt will clash in the near future is minimal. And if Egypt would lay mines in Israeli territorry it is an act of war, not to mention if they would bloch all Israeli major seaports.

The sea IS an important hub in Israels transport system, but if however the seaports are blocked, there is always the opportunity for an airlift, just like the ones that where done during the Yom Kippur war.